I am in the process of building five fly rods and the question crossed my mind as to what guides to use. I already had snake guides in my stock to complete these rods but thought about going with ceramics. So I consulted two fly rod fishermen. One is a retired guide (also certified) and teaches fly casting part time, the other is a certified fly casting instructer and saltwater guide. They both told me to go with the snakes, less line slap and more distance in their casts and that guide placement was very important. Both of these guys also build rods. The active guide told me that the best guides going are the Rec recoil guides. That these guides shoot line like a bullet. We were in a large fly shop at the time and he showed me some guides on a popular brand of fly rods. The guides looked like ceramic but the ring was made of some metal and had sharp edges. We also looked at some GLoomis rods that now have the recoil guides on them and I was impressed. Mind you, both of these fellows use their own rods to fish. I already own a Loomis rod but when I decide to build another, I will certainly go with the recoils. Right now I have to use my snakes on these inexpensive blanks that I got from Andy. I hate to spend more for guides than I did for the blanks.

There is nothing wrong with snake guides. They work as well now as they did 70 or 80 years ago.

Ceramics offer certain advantages and almost no disadvantages other than price. They're quieter, won't ever wear or groove, can be lighter depending on sizing and wrapping and keep the line off the blank better (although I wouldn't push this feature too much).

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The one advantage that was pointed out to me about the recoils vs the ceramics is that there is no ring to pop out if you accidently hit the rod against something. Anyway I am having a ball making rods and fly tying. I have met some great guys in a fly fishing club that are teaching me fly tying and a great old fellow that is a super caster. I am sure that I will learn a lot from them. It is a new challenge for me. I can cast and catch fish but I am not in their league yet.

If you're building rods heavier than 4 wts....then ceramics are undoubtably the way to go. On 4 wts it is a pick 'em deal (I have snakes on my 4 wt). Beneath 4 wts...I'ld say go with the snakes.

For whatever it is worth...

Keith

Thanks Keith,
Two weeks ago at a fly fishing club meeting a fellow took my 9 wt. Austin with ceramic guides on it and shot the whole line. However, he seems to prefer snakes. I guess the discussion could go on for ever. I do really like the recoils now that I have seen them. They are not cheap guides though. I spent an hour at a very large tackle shop here in Houston today. I got to see GLoomis fly rods and casting rods with the recoils on them. The 7 foot casting rod was very light except for the price, over $300 for a popping rod. Makes me glad that I am a rod builder. The 4, 5, and 6 wts. that I am building will have snakes, not the recoils at this time.

Hi Ellis,

I've used snake guides for nearly forty years on flyrods, but I recently built two flyrods (4wt) using single foot TiN wire rings on one and single foot ceramic rings on the other. I think the cermics performed better than either the single foot TiN wire ring or the snake guides I've used in the past. Since you are making five flyrods, when you reach the point of putting guides on them why not dress one with traditional snake guides and one with ceramics and test the performance as you adjust the guides for the best placement. See which one you like better. Experimental methods dictate theory. Good luck.

Mike Blomme

Sometimes what you seek in feel outweighs what you seek in performance. They are to seperate things that cannot be compared. It is a personnel thing and I think it always will be. Tom

Although I have noticed that ceramics shoot a bit better, I like the snakes the best because of the durability. Most rods get wacked around quite a bit either going in/out of the case, at the docks, or in the trunk. The snakes (esp the recoils) won't mind the bumping at all, while single footed ceramics will get bent, rings pop out, etc.

Take two rods and put on handle, reel seat, and tip. Then put snakes on one and ceramics on the other (fasten with surgical tubing or rubber bands like you're placing guides). Take'm out and cast them both. YOU decide. There is no right or wrong way to build them.

The first rod I ever built, I made the guides out of stainless wire. It's still casting well today. Even a good caster will make a poorly developed rod dance well. ---pph

"Even a good caster will make a poorly developed rod dance well."

I agree. And I think that this is why there is such a large "subjective" factor in gaugeing performance based on test casting. The human being is not able to consistently repeat test casts. I think that people adjust to achieve performance. I dont think the normal person - if we rod builders and fishermen are even considered to be "normal" people - can make 30 to 50 identical casts in a row. Someone would have to build a machine to cast so that all the factors remain constant each and every time. I think that its a natural human tendency to adjust for error. And that can skew any test results.

But then again, once you get something (guide placement, spine alignment, etc) the way you like it and are able to consistently reproduce good performance, that's what counts.

It's like: "I only catch fish on sunny days so I never go fishing when it's cloudy." Maybe not quite that extreme but you get the idea.