I just built a 6’6" Casting rod for a friend and did the Roberts wrap on the rod. It took 4 guides to make the wrap to the bottom. He is using braided line with the Rod and says that the line is fowling in the guides and is not casting very well.
The first 4 guide I used were Fuji GSLVG 12, 10, 8 and another 8. Are these guide the right guides to use for the wrap? Or should I have used guides that sit lower on the rod? Or is it the line he is using?
Thanks for your help
Jon

Jon,
When the line is 'fowling' in the guides, can you be a little more specific? Could it be due to factors about the line? or possible the reel mechanics? Which guides is it fowling with, or just the tip. A well wrapped spiral rod should not cause any more particular line problems than would a conventional wrapped rod.
The four guides transitioning to the lower guides seems about right and I shouldn't think the ring sizing is off for this type of rod.
Some braids do better than others in controlling tip looping, but a study of the line fouling may be something to check for yourself and do a test casting with the similar equipment set up (reel and line) that your friend is using. At that point you could determine the problem.

The spiral wrapped rods I've seen and built do quite well with the spiral wrap, in fact I recommend using the low stretch better braids (like Tuff Line) in many situations and tournament proven.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods
Richard's Rod & Reel

The guide frame height needs to be whatever is required in order to achieve the desired line path. If you use the O'Quinn method it may require one type of guide, with something a bit more standard, it may take something else. But I doubt the guides or the line are the problem.

I wonder if you have cast the rod and seen this "fouling" occur. That's the next step you need to take to determine if there is really a problem or whether this is the result of a fisherman who finds the wrap "odd" and is having a hard time reconciling himself to it. Let us know what you find after you cast the rod.

.............

Jon: Did your customer request a Robert's wrap? The reason I say this is because a standard wrap is much more functional,and with the guides going around the blank the customer has a greater chance of damaging them when he sets his rod against something. Here in Calif. the Robert's wrap is looked at as nothing more than a gimmick. Contary to some peoples belief it does not cast any further,we have taken identical rods and tried it, there is no advantage to the Robert's wrap. The only thing we have found is that some people just want to be different.

Good Luck
Joe

Joe,

You are wrong on the idea that there is no benefit to the spiral wrap. Very, very wrong.

First off, no knowledgeable rod builder I know of has said that it will cast further. Anyone who has said that has no idea of what the purpose of the wrap is. So you are right about that.

But, a standard casting or conventional rod has zero stability under load. Absolutely zero. This is exactly why things like gimbals exist - to keep the rod from twising/spinning under load. Guides are pulled to the bottom of any rod under load. It's a simple matter of physics. Under load, part of the fight you wage is actually against the rod, not just the fish.

On a spiral wrap, stability is 100%. The guides are where the load wants to place them. The angler is free to fight the fish, not the rod. (Ask any of the guys on the AllCoast board how they now feel about the spiral, or as they call it, the Acid wrap, for saltwater fishing.) You can actually handle the rod with just a finger - no gimbal is necessary as more load is applied, the more stable the rod becomes.

I don't know what type tests you fellows did, but they could not have been very good ones. The spiral wrap equals the standard guides-on-top set-up on all counts, and bests it greatly on the stability factor. If the wrap was a gimmick, I can assure you it would never have been featured in two seperate articles in RodMaker Magazine. The one thing we don't buy into is gimmicks, and while I would certainly agree with you that many rod building ideas are indeed gimmicks, the spiral wrap is for real.

What you fellows need to perform, see performed, is a demostration of what happens to each type rod under load while the rod is sitting on a vertical spine finder. The results are so conclusive, and so very shocking even among the most die-hard anti-spiral guys, that most go right out and either buy or build themselves a spiral wrapped rod. They suddenly realize that about half the force they feel and half the effort they expend while fighting a fish, is actually going into fighting the rod. The spiral wrap reduces the effort they need to expend, eliminates strain and fatique and actually protects the rod from any damaging twisting motion. This isn't a guess, it's a fact.

By the way, in order to keep from damaging guides when lying the rod on the boat deck, just spiral them to the same side as the reel handle. That takes care of any problems in that arena.

...............

I have watched guys on the piers and party boats move down the rail to follow a fish and they always turn their rods upside down since the rod is trying to spin that way anyway. The reel wants to go to bottom if there is a good fish pulling on it. I have watched them struggle to clear their rod and line over those of others. It's not a pretty sight.

This past season and on two occasions I watched people with spiral wrapped rods moving down the rail to get past other fishermen. They put one hand under the foregrip or just behind the reel and go about their business as they lift up and over. No struggle, no fight from the rod. The spiral wrap just makes things easier as the reel longer tries to spin to the bottom.

I think when people are only involved with small freshwater fish they are not able to see what a huge difference the spiral wrap really makes. And I am convinced it does make a difference. I will never build another casting rods with the guides up on top. It just doesn't make sense to do it that way.

Tom: Sounds like you fellas did something that we failed to do out here in the West. Everything you said does make sense,but the fisherman out here just don't like it. Of all the long range trips I've taken I have never seen a rod with a sprial wrap on it. If everything you say is true it sounds to me that it would be a great advantage to the stand-up style of fishing we do for tuna.

Thanks For The Information,
Joe

Stand-up for tuna without a spiral wrap? Man, you guys are working yourself to death! But then, so was I until I caught on.

First time I showed up on a boat with such a rod the guys thought I was crazy. By the second day we fished everyone had had a chance to fight a fish with the spiral wrapped rod. Now they all own spiral wrapped rods.

Really Joe, you've gotta give this a try. You cannot believe how much easier it is to fight any big, tough saltwater fish on a spiral wrapped rod. There is no contest!

Just today, I took a Harnell 542 and a Seeker Ulua93H, both spiral(Acid) wrapped out into Mexican waters for fishing with the iron. Under scrutiny from everyone on the boat not familiar with the rods with weirdly wrapped guides, I threw 4 oz Salas surface Irons. I was was throwing the iron next to the deckhands that do this day in, day out and was throwing them just as far, sometimes farther and with a levelwind reel. The stability of the spiral wrap is apparent under any load condition, even casting!
After explaining the attributes and demonstrating on the iron and some 2XL Baracudas and Bonitos, I could have physically sold 3 or 4 rods but the concept sold itself!

Visit this board and search the archives:
[www.sport-fish-info.com]
You also need to email Jim Kastroff, frequent contributor to RodMaker Magazine for his fine weaves. To date, Jim has over 25 spiral(Acid) wrapped rods and has started a friendly competition for who can land the largest fish on an acid rod. His heaviest offshore rod thus far is a vintage Truline for 60# with a Penn Int. 16S.
I just delivered a spiral (acid) wrapped Calstar GF765M, an 80# rod, to a gentleman in Arizona who will be tageting Marlin and Yellowfin Tuna on the East Cape of Baja California.
You are mistaken when you say spiral wrapped rods are not making an apperance on the West Coast!
We are a small but growing contingent rod wrappers and fishermen that are taking the Spiral Wrap concept offshore and Longrange!