I am building a 7' baitcasting rod. I am using concept guides for this rod. After doing a load test some of my guides toward the tip end are only 4 inches apart otherwise the line touches the blank during the load test. Is this spacing to close or is it typical of the concept system?

Dan,

Sounds about right for an old fashoined 'guides on top' baitcasting rod. The tip end will flex into a tighter curve, requiring more guides to keep the line off the blank. In many instances, such a rod will even torque the guides to the bottom of the rod under a heavy load (swinging a fish in, for instance), REGARDLESS of how the guides are spaced. I've seen some spectacular failures because of this.

Having that many guides on the tip of the rod isn't ideal as far as rod performance goes, but if you are set on that type of wrap, it's what you'll have to do.

If you want to get more out of the blank, try a spiral wrap. This gets the guides to the bottom of the rod, where they belong, and allows you to use fewer guides without overstressing the blank.

Good luck!

Buddy

I can't add much to what Buddy has already told you. Yes, if you use small low-frame guides on the top of the rod they'll have to be spaced pretty close together. And if you use high-frame guides on top of the rod you do get away with using fewer of them but you exacerbate the problem of rod twist.

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Dan,
In my judgment using enough guides so that the line does not touch the rod when the rod is at max. deflection results in too many guides. And I know that this has been the recommendation for a lot of years. The justification for using enough guides so that the line does not touch the rod at Max. deflection has been that this avoids any friction between the line and the rod. But if you think about it, there should not be any circumstances when the rod is at max. deflection that the line is moving. If the line is not moving then there is no friction. When you cast and the rod is fully loaded the line is not moving. The line starts to move as the rod starts to straighten and the lines highest velocity is when the rod is virtually straight. So friction between the rod and the line is not a problem when casting. When landing a fish you normally pump the rod retrieving line as you lower the rod. As you lower the rod it straightens. When a fish makes a hard run you should drop the tip of the rod so that the load on the rod moves toward the butt and as you lower the rod it straightens. So when fighting a fish there should not be any problem with friction between the line and the rod.
When I determine how many guides a rod should have, using static deflection, I position the guides so that the line DOES JUST TOUCH the rod when the rod is at max. deflection.
For most rods that will be used to cast with each additional guide will lower the rod performance, as determined by measuring the resonant frequency, in the ball park of 5% to 10% depending mainly upon the rods power. And the closer to the tip of the rod that the weight of an additional guide is added the more effect it has on performance.
One other point that you might consider. As you deflect the blank you will notice that the first few inches of the blank do not deflect or bend. The blank will start bending several inches from the tip. So the first guide from the tip can be back farther than most people realize. In the area where the blank is not bending there is also very little stress so that is not a reason for placing that first guide too close to the tip

"The SIMPLE SPIRAL WRAP: The BUMPER SYSTEM"
Author: William "Bill" Colby [RMM-8(2)], with Tom Kirkman
RodMaker Magazine Volume-8, Issue #2, pages 16-17
Back issues ($7 each) available at www.rodmakermagazine.com

The 2 photographs and the 2 illustrations tell it all, and they clarify much of the confusion of the earlier Posts made before Colby's Article in RMM-8(2) was widely
available to most subscribers of RMM. ... -Cliff Hall+++