I used the Concept Guide Method on my nephew's spinning rod and it worked great. My buddy and I took it outside to cast for the first time. He looked at all the guides and was skeptical about how well it would cast. I have to admit I questioned it a bit myself. Even with about 10-pound test line
it cast very easy with a flick of the wrist.

I have a theoretical question:
If you put guides on a rod without measuring for them and attached a reel and line. Could you theoretically find the correct spacing for them just by moving the guides under rod stress so that the line followed the contour of the rod in a correct manner?

The correct manner in the theoretical flexed spacing you are musing about only requires that there be congruencey between the angles the line entering and leaving each guide have in relation to one another; and then to that of the line angles of the guides on either side of a subject guide, eventually making all these line angles as uniform as possible along the guide run of the loaded blank. This will often produce the fewest guides possible for a given rod. Not unike a lower end 05' 10' G-loomis Steelhead rod I saw with only 8 guides + a tip on it?. I look at it differently and opt for a bit more weight in exchange for structual insurance.

I use some basic rod building axioms I have observed to figure out the proportions of the rod in finding the total guide run...On a spinning rod from the front of the where the reel seat is mounted you idealy would like to have 26-28" to the 1st large guide. (on a casting rod 21-23") A specific reel size dedicated to a particular blank could alter this axiom slightly. I have seen 1st guide placements as close as 15" but the overal look of the rod seems strange and makinfg you ponderous when viewing it
Once you have this 1st guide located, place the tip top on the blank and measure what lies inbetween. This is your guide run. I then look at the overall length of the blank knowing that a min. number of guides required is one guide per foot of blank length, so a 7'6" rod blank would require at least 8 guides (rounding always up) + the tip top. Better rods are said to have more guides than this rule of thumb and being cognisent of the fact that one of the most common mistakes a novice rod builder may make is to over guide, 9 guides + a tip. might be an ideal option to consider and extrsapolate upon for pourposes of this example. Given a 6" rear grip and a 4" reel seat are used; then adding 26" proportial spacing, leaves 54" of guide run, dividing by 9 guides equals 6". So in effect having an odd number of guides, produces a spacing between the 4th and 5th guide of 6" inches or your guide number to guide run average. The guides nearer the tip you proportionally take away from 6", the guides near the butt end you add to 6" in exact proportion to what you took away from the subtraction end. So the 1st guide from the tip would be spaced 3" away from the tip and the last guide (nearest the butt..9th guide) would be 9" away from the 8th guide, resulting in an increasing proportional guide spacing progression of 3/4" of an inch per guide as you travel away from the tip. This spacing usually has more than enough guides along the guide run to transfer the Mfg's line rating loads (and a bit beyond..insurance!) which are expected to be placed on the blank, and more effectivly than if you taped on guides and tried to load the rod, adjusting the guides on the rod to obtain the fewest number of guides possible. Making the exact spacing along the arch of the flexed/loaded rod far more paramount in carring the Mfg indicated load without degrading fatigue and eventual failure. Adding into the equasion the possibility of small usage nick in the blank of an under guided rod, this increases the stress placed on the rod and can shorten the life expectancey of this version of the overall blank/guide structure.

Yes, sort of maybe. The New Guide Concept spacing system (as outlined in the online library here) takes a little different tack than the old cone of flight system. By quickly controlling the line and getting it moving straight, and most importantly, removing weight from the tip area of the rod, you increase rod efficiency which translates into longer casts. You could do the same by simple trial and error, but it would take longer and rarely have I seen it produce any better results. Although, you can learn much by trial and error.

...........

Yep. I looked at that rod and thought, "How can this thing throw a decent line." The system works and it was my first attempt. Thanks

Bruce - It sounds like you are asking about a static deflection test / static load distribution method that seeks to have an "equal angles" approach to guide layout.

This "EQUAL ANGLES" method was codified by Don Morton (as far as I know). I don't know much more about it, except what Mud-Hole says about it in the 2006 Catalog, page 94 ($55) and what I can surmise from the picture of the Morton Grid. This graphical - interactive method flexes the rod and places the guides where the angles at the guides would be fairly consistent throughout the bending zone.

The reference for this Method is RMM-4(6) - "The Equal Angle System" by Don Morton. I do not have that RMM-4(6) back issue, and back issues are sold out, per TK. How precisely this (or any such system) can graphically determine "equal angles" is a bit of a mystery to me, both geometrically and dynamically, ... but that's the method's and the product's claim. Like I said, the RMM back issues sold out before I could get one. ... But some people are very confident in it. See these Post & Replies for some recent comments on Morton's Grid:

Morton Graph ... Bruce A. Tomaselli (YOU!) ... Dec. 7, 2005 10:30
[www.rodbuilding.org]
What issue of RodMaker did Don Morton's graph appear? Thanks

Don Morton's Equal Angle Spacings ... Tim Collins ... 12-07-05
[www.rodbuilding.org]
Since I still have no idea what good versus bad line angles in the static test exactly look like, I'm inclined to stay with the Don Morton Equal Angle (and Progressive Angle) guide spacing method for my initial setup. I made up a chart with concentric circles and various angles on a poster-board that I use for fly rods but I would like to update my chart for spinning blanks as well (if needed). My equal angle lines are every 5 degrees through 120 degrees.

-Cliff Hall+++



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2006 10:53PM by Cliff Hall.

Thanks, Cliff! I'm going to check out those threads as soon as I get caught up with my work. I looked at that Morton graph and understand the theory behind it. It seems like a lot of money to pay for the graph itself. On the other hand the designer's expertise and experience should be compensated.