Would having a balance rod with added weights be better than a rod that is built as light as possible but not balance? Which one would create the least fatigue during a long fishing day?

IMO - a balanced rod is much better since any additional weight is centered closer to your hand. Even with a lightweight rod that is tip heavy will put a lot of strain on your wrist if you're constantly pulling the tip section upward. I'm finding that spinning rods are a bit harder to balance than fly rod. On my last Dan Craft FT 10' 8wt, I didn't want to add lead weight in the butt so I stripped off the grip, special ordered a 7 1/2" full wells non-inletted grip, added a 1/2" hood ring for a grip that was 8" long. It balanced the rod perfectly with the reel I planned to use and am very glad I went this route. Good luck.

I agree with Tim.
Also not sure about fly rods. But with spinning and bait casters, subtle bites are easier to detect on a balanced rod .A rod that is pulling down at the tip because of being tip heavy is not a responsive to that gentle tap tap on the end of the line. Also when a fish just picks the bait up and moves off with it. A balanced rod will pickup on the pulling quicker then a rod that is pulling down to begin with because of its own weight

Balance is more important to fishability, especially considering fly rods. BUT with that said, given 2 balanced rods, the lighter one will be easier to cast, fatigue you less, and in hand have more "wow" factor. The lighter the fly rod, the more pronounced this is. The heavier the fly rod, the less the weight savings will have in terms of "wow" factor, but the difficulting of casting and fatigue will still be there, with some caveats. For instance I've seen some 2 handed fly rods that were very heavy rods, but considering the reels themselves weighed a ton, the rod being "heavy" made no real difference.

-- Cheers
-- James

Ben,
I have tried it both ways and prefer mine with little or no added weight. It will really depend on personal preference. Many bass rods however are fished with the rod in something other than a rod up position which would not need to be tip light and some like Flip rods would require a chunk of weight to balance. I suggest you try both ways and see which you prefer.

Depends on how far out of balance the rod is to begin with. Most times if you don't go overboard on the guides and guidewraps the rod won't be tip heavy unless it's way long. Longer than 7 or 8 feet anyway. I've added a little weight to the butt before but I won't add more than 1/4 ounce. Any more than that and you get balance but at what price? Just my .02.

Ben,

Most discussions about 'balance' and fishing rods are mostly 'theory' based and have little application in the 'real' fishing world.

Blance a rod 'how'? Where do you put the fulcrum point? Where you 'hold' it? Just ahead of the foregrip?

At what 'angle' should the rod 'balance'? How you normally 'hold' it while fishing? Dependes, of course, on what that particualr rod is going to do. Are you holding it low and retrieveing a crankbait with it? Holding tip up for worm fishing. Just 'holding' it while bait fishing? At what 'angle'. Horizontal? (does anyone actually 'fish' with rod in that attitude?). A rod that 'balances' in one of these will be 'out of balance' in all of the others.

Do you balance it with a reel on it?A reel full of line? How about with line through the guides and out past the tip? You surely can't fish with it unless this is occurring. If you are using ANY kind of a lure requiring a tight line, then there will be some 'pull' or drag on the rod tip from this. Do you 'retrieve' a lure with it? If so, do you balance it with the 'pull' of lure as part of the equation? AND it will surely vary based on the lure type, lure weight, any current, etc.. You can't fish with the rod unless there is some type of lure or bait on the end of the line, so does balancing it WITHOUT these things matter?

Unless you fish only by holding a rod with a slack line hanging from it, it's impossible to 'balance' a rod to the way it's fished. Balancing it to any other 'purpose' doesn't do any good. Way too many variables involved.

And we haven't even gotten anywhere near a fly rod. Since you can't fish with one of these without a WEIGHTED line extending past the tip of the rod, can you even consider 'balance' of the rod/reel at all? 'Static' balance of any kind is absolutley 'useless' on any fly rod that you actually intend to cast with. By design, the whole fly casting process involves levers and forces that require imbalance to work effectively.

'Balance' in a rod means matching the components so that it performs to the best of it's potential. It has NOTHING to do with how a rod 'hangs' across ones fingers, or how it 'feels' when holding it in a shop.

Build the lightest rod you can. Adding weight only degrades performance.

Good Luck!

Buddy Sanders

(I've surely stirred it now!!!)

Buddy:
Glad to hear you don't balance rods, But to suggest it has no relevance is a misconception. Let me clarify a couple of things. I don't balance every rod. spinner bait and crank bait rods I fish pointed down, and yes the drag on the line counter balances the rod. I do balance every slack line technique rod and top water rod I build.

To answer some of your questions:
“Most discussions about 'balance' and fishing rods are mostly 'theory' based and have little application in the 'real' fishing world.”
I’ve applied all my balanced rod to the real world of fishing.


“At what 'angle' should the rod 'balance'?”
A balanced rod is balanced at all angles, that what the word balance means. Unless it is standing in a corner.

“Where do you put the fulcrum point?”
I put the fulcrum point at the center of the reel placement, because that is were I hold the rod.

“Adding weight only degrades performance”
I have fished balanced rod for about 25 five years now, and based on my experience balanced always out performs non balanced even when they weigh more.

Here is a short term experiment that may help you understand the effects of fishing with a tip heavy rod on a long-term day
Take one of out rods and hold it like you normally do for 3 minutes. Then take the same rod and put a 10 pound weight on it and hold it like you normally do for 3 minutes. You should be able to tell a deference in the fatigue of your wrest. Now if you do the math equations. To extend that out for an eight hour day using just a few gram of weight you’ll find you have about the same amount of fatigue.

“ it's impossible to 'balance' a rod to the way it's fished”
I balance all the ones I balance, to the way I fish

“(I've surely stirred it now!!!)”
You should have been a politician!!!
IMHO

Way to go, Buddy!!!!!!!!!! One more thing that many do with no rhyme or reason because "that's the way it's done! Sort of like spending a bundle on guides to save 10 grams of weight and then hanging a 6 oz reel on the rod!!!!!

Steve,
Both you and Buddy make some good points but I do not think that the experiment that you suggest holds water. 10 lbs for 3 minutes and a few grams for a day will not necessarily equal the same amount of fatigue. Plus it seems to me that your experiment argues for less weight not more.

For myself, on rods that I am using for soft plastics or jigs in bass fishing, I have seen a great deal less fatigue on my hands using a balanced rod. With having a very slight condition of carple tunnel, my hands and wrists are not as sore after a day a fishing using a balanced rod. Having to compensate for a tip heavy rod in slack line presentations, my hands and wrists ached after a tournament. After balancing a rod at the reel location, I have much less problems with my hands.

Emory:
It is the foward weight pulling down on a wrist that creates fatigue,not the total weight of the rod. I know this from experience. Also if you do the mathematical equations for my example you will find that I am relatively close. a few grams held for eight hours will bring about the same amont of fatigue as ten ponds held for three minutes.
My experiances have ben the same as Mikes. at one time thought I might have to give up tournament fishing because of the pain. By using balanced rods I've eliminated the problem.

Thanks for all the good replies, I balance my rods and they feel really good...now if only the ice would go alway...

Sorry guys..

But physics, which we can't escape, deems that all rods 'balance' at some angle at any point along it's length. What you are doing by adding weight is determining a fulcrum point AND an angle that you find 'pleasing' or 'comfortable'. Since this 'angle' and fulcrum point CHANGES constantly based on the force applied to the tip of the rod, to get a rod 'balanced' (equal weight distribution on either side of where you are holding it) you'd have to constantly CHANGE the weight at the lower end of the rod to compensate. Since the mechanical advantage is given to the long end of the lever, even a slight change in weight at the tip of the rod would significantly change the weight needed at the butt to 'balance' it.

Again, this is all 'theory' based on physical laws that are pretty straightforward. 'Balance' on fishing rod is basically impossible except at ONE fulcrum point with ONE angle and and ONE amount of force applied to the rod. All of this is basically arbitrary, and what 'feels' balanced to one will not 'feel' balanced to another. Since true balance is impossible in any fishing situation, the whole balance thing is mostly hype.

By the way, the 'I feel less fatigue' stuff becuse you added weight to a rod to 'balance it', is too subjective. It's probably all in your mind. Ypou did THIS, so the result is THAT, because you were told it would be. Actual physical evidence deems that the rod is ALWAYS in a state of imbalance unless you aren't USING it.

Having the top end of a rod as light as possible reduces fatigue, regardless of the 'balance' thing where you add weight to the bottom end.

More weight equals more fatigue. Regardless of where you put it.

I know too many folks 'believe' in rod blance for me to change minds wth something as simple as logic.

Doesn't make it any less a fact, though. Lots of folks belieeved the earth was flat for a LONG time....

Me and Chris, enlightening the masses where we can...

Good Luck!

Buddy

What matters is where you put the fatigue. The human (our) anatomy is a group of very complex levers, especially the arm. Balanceing the rod helps to move the fatigue caused by the extra weight to stronger areas of the arm. Areas that feel the small increase of weigh less in terms of the amount of weight it takes to tire a particular muscle group. Balanceing a rod does work, does make a rod feel better in the hand.. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Ralf;
Absolutly correct. If you hold a five pound weight down by your side, it causes alot less fatigue then of you hold that same weight strait out at sholders lenth.

Both points of view have merit and adding weight to balance seems to depend on what you're trying to accomplish. Personally, I can't bring myself to add weight just for the purpose of balancing, but it does make the rod feel lighter in the hand when it's static because you can relax your grip. Contrary to B(P)S hype, it won't make your rod 300X more sensitive, but some feel that a lighter grip could improve strike detection. The trade-off to adding weight is that it makes the rod feel heavier when casting. So the trade off relates to Static vs. Dynamic action. There's an inertial effect when you're simply slinging more weight around. So in addition to whether it's a tip-up vs. tip down technique, I'd ask myself how much casting is involved...vs. something like a live bait rig...etc.

Keeping the whole system as light as possible above the balance point (starting with the blank) is key, since it takes less weight, if any to balance. Custom builds also have the advantage of seat placement and handle designs that can shift the balance without adding weight, esp if you know the reel you’re dealing with and how the rod will be held.

markG

I do my best to keep the rod as light as possible, but for rods that I use for pitching and flipping, they are the ones I will add weight for if needed. If you are casitng correctly with these techniques, then you are not casting the weight at all. The rods motion is all at that balance point which I make at the reel. So having the the tip feeling lighter allows me to relax my grip and allows me to make those cast will less effort and to detect the bites better when I get them.

DITTO!!!!!