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Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Thomas Greising (136.8.152.---)
Date: December 23, 2005 04:09AM

I assume it is a 50/50 blend. Has anyone tryed to thin it??

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Billy Vivona (67.72.26.---)
Date: December 23, 2005 09:38AM

Thin it with what? There is really no need to thin it. If you want it thinner, due to the cold temps & all epoxies being a little thicker - heat it for 7 seconds in the microwave. I don't know what is teh proper part to heat in teh 'wave, A or B, but I usually just heat them both without a problem. Maybe it shortens the pot life, I don't know - I'm not only referring to ThreadMaster, I'm speaking about all epoxies I've ever used except Crystal Coat.

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Andy Dear (---.stic.net)
Date: December 23, 2005 10:23AM

Hi Thomas and all,
Most manf. DO NOT reccomend thinning with a solvent...I do not either. There really is no need for it. Here is the deal; IF, what you're looking for is quicker saturation of the threads, apply it to the wrap, and then torch it a couple of times to momentarily thin it. On the other hand, if what you're looking for is a thinner coat, that doesn't have as much to do with viscosity as it does application technique. It always astounded me that people were thinning FlexCoat in order to get a thinner coat, when all they needed to do was alter their technique a bit to get it on thinnner? The rpoblem with thinning with a solvent is that if for some reason all of the solvent doesn't evaporate back out before the finish cures, you're going to have a mess on your hand.

I am going to post some hints/tips on my website, but for now here is a synopsis:

The ideal working temp for ThreadMaster...not environmental temp. but actual temp of the resin/hardener is about 95 degrees. Certainly it will work beautifully in any temp. but to maximize the potlife and flow characteristics, between 90 and 98 degrees is perfect. Anything above 98 and the potlife will start to shorten, and the mixed resin will flash quicker. Anything below and the potlife will be longer but the flow will be slightly thicker. Like I said, you'll still achieve a beautiful finish working outside of the optimum temp. ranges, but the working properties will change. SO, knowing that, here is what you do; take the 2 bottles and microwave them for 10 seconds, then hold them in your hands, if you cant feel the warmth then microwave them for another 10 seconds. ONCE YOU FEEL THE BOTTLES SLIGHTLY WARM STOP! Allow the bottles to cool until you can only BARELY feel the warmth if at all...that should put the finish around the 95 degree mark. Now mix with a 1:1 ratio, apply to the wraps with whatever method you feel comfortable, flame with torch to release bubbles (if you do that), and rotate for about an hour (depending on environmental temp). Subsequent coats can be applied after about 4-6 hours.

HERE IS ANOTHER INTERESTING FEATURE that I have not yet posted on this board: You guys will be happy to know that the days of uncured sticky finishes are pretty much over. Because of the unique chemistry of the hardener ThreadMaster actually has about an 8-10 percent margin for error in mixing. So, the chances of you EVER having another Batch of finish NOT CURE, have just been reduced in a HUGE way. I have actually eyeballed the measuring of the components with the yorker cap, and the finish has still cured perfectly (don't try that at home kids...use your syringes or stainless steel measuring spoons).

Also, ThreadMaster is extremely resistant to the dreaded "PolyAmine Blush" which is more common with the older technologies. For those of you who have never experienced this phenomenon, you're lucky! It is a nasty effect most commonly caused by Moisture/CarbonDioxide, that leaves a nasty cloudy effect to the cured finish. In many instances it actually leaves a condensation effect on top of the cured wraps.

The goal with ThreadMaster was to make a finish that is EXTREMELY user friendly. Like I have said before, there are many good 2 part polymers on the market, however some require very specific mixing and application techniques that force the user to alter his or her method and go through a new learning curve to get good results. I feel that it is better to make a product that works well with all mixing/application methods (within reason of course) allowing the user to get excellent results no matter whether he uses a brush or a spatula, or whether he applies one thick coat or two thin coats, or whether he roatates the rod by hand or by motor.

Hope that answers your questions Thomas...let me know if you need anything else!

Andy Dear
Lamar Mfg.

P.S. Thomas...how cold is it over there in Sweden right now?

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: December 23, 2005 11:19AM

One very easy way to get a thinner coat, is to use a stiffer brush. For a thicker coat, use a softer brush.

.................

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Billy Vivona (67.72.26.---)
Date: December 23, 2005 11:49AM

I think people want a thinner finish to better penetrate teh threads. I know when the finish begins to set up & thicken, that it doesn't penetrate as well as it did when teh finish was freshly mixed. I did a beater rod with nylon over metallic, where teh thread bled through at different rates. I first went and put a glob of finish only on teh thread where teh guide foot was on each guide on teh rod. Then went back and coated teh rest of teh wrap. 2-toned guide wraps, it looked pretty crappy.

PS - that was 3 years ago I did that, when I was trying a zillion different ways to apply epoxy & learn which way is the best for me. Obviously that way failed my test. lol.

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Mikko Stenberg (---.hdyn.saunalahti.fi)
Date: December 23, 2005 01:53PM

I dunno about he Sweden but here in Finland it's getting warm again. Yesterday we had 14F but today it's getting close to 30F.

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: John Bumstead (---.s289.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com)
Date: December 23, 2005 02:56PM

Andy:
Does shipping in winter temps have an effect on Threadmaster? I am thinking of the bottles being in a series of warm and cold enviroments while being delivered and then maybe staying for hours in a mailbox on a post while someone is at work. Thanks. John

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Andy Dear (---.stic.net)
Date: December 23, 2005 03:35PM

No, it shouldn't unless it was left to sit unmixed an extremely long time in the heat....even then, as I understand it from my chemist all you'd be doing is accelerating the eventual discoloration that happens on ALL epoxies.
I was just having a similiar conversation with Bill Stevens. I have my original sample that has been sitting in my unheated shop unmixed for 7 months. It has been occasionally stirred and poured for the purpose of sending out samples. It has been left open with the cap off and is subjest to daily variances in temp. of about 30 degrees, as well as humidity.....very little if any color change.
Like I have said before, and I will continue to re-hash this so there is no ambiguity. ALL EPOXIES WILL EVENTUALLY BREAKDOWN AND TURN YELLOW. ThreadMaster is not immune to this, however the results of my tests and those at the factory done in an accelerated weather chamber show ThreadMaster to resist breakdown and maintain clarity and integrity an extremely long time....much longer than the 5 or 6 other Resins I and the folks who tested it for me put it up against.


Andy

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Ralph O'Quinn (---.wavecable.com)
Date: December 23, 2005 11:00PM

Andy
You didn't answer John Bumstead question -- he asked you if shipping in winter temperatures will have an effect on Threadmaster? I will answer the question for you. Yes John, shipping in winter temperatures will have the same effect on threadmaster that it has on LS Supreme or any other two part epoxy in the Galaxy. If it sits in a cold mail box all day on a cold winter day, the epoxy part will crystallize. You can tell this by it turning to a white solid. All you have to do is pop it into the microwave oven for a few 10 second bursts--- or merely soak it in a pan of hot water for 10 -15 minutes and it will return to normal, and no one will be the wiser and it will be as good as new. Nothing will happen to the hardener, but it may need a little warming up before mixing. So there Andy.

Ralph

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: December 23, 2005 11:27PM

Andy,

I was going to email this to you, but it fits here:

To see how versatile Threadmaster was, I eyeballed the mix in a cup (from the yorker caps). After mixing, I noticed the levels in the bottles was not even; apparently my eyeballs were off.

Then, I promptly put it onto the guides of a 9' rod, I built for myselft. After doing this, I looked around and found another of my rods, that I had not finished yet. I took my brush and slathered the thickening Threadmaster onto the biggest wrap. It was pretty mottled, but after about an hour I checked the wrap, and there was even penetration, with a nice smooth color. The finish did not fill the area around the guide foot, but at this point, I figured it was way too thick to do this anyways.

The temp outside was in the upper teens, to the lower twenties, which made my little shop only about 65 inside.

So, after all of this, nine hours later I checked the foil I had mixed the Threadmaster on, and it was PERFECTLY CURED. All the wraps turned out GREAT!

Thanks for putting such a great product out, and thank your chemist!

Chris

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Andy Dear (---.stic.net)
Date: December 24, 2005 08:49AM

Ralph,
Thank you for elaboating on my point in "True Ralph fashion" Ha! How long does it take your LS crystalize in say 35 degree temps? By the way....Did you get the voice mail message I left you the other day? Call me when you get a chance, or I'll give you a ring next week.

Hey Chris, thanks for posting that! I have ehad pretty much the same results, so I am glad yours mirrored mine!

Andy

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
Date: December 24, 2005 09:22AM

How long does it take Resins to crystallize? MY shop has been between 52-65 degrees for teh past month, and certain Resins crystallize more and faster than others. One particular brand it VERY difficult to remove these crystals, even with microwaving it a few times.

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.250.183.232.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net)
Date: December 24, 2005 11:24AM

Andy

How or when will a high build be out ?

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: John Bumstead (---.s511.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com)
Date: December 24, 2005 12:57PM

My thanks to Ralph and Andy. The average outside temps around here during the day are around 38°. We have already had several days when the temps have not risen above freezing at all. John

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: December 25, 2005 12:55PM

The colder it is, the quicker resin tends to crystalize. But most all will do it over time, even in 50 or 60F temps, given enough time.

Glass Coat, Flex Coat and Epoxy Coatings Co. products all tend to crystalize fairly quickly. They also require more than a simple 10 second blast in the MW in order to return to normal. Most of these will take 4 or 5 blasts or sitting a pan of very, very hot water for more than 30 minutes. But they can still be returned to like condition. It just takes a little longer.

......

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: December 25, 2005 04:54PM

Tom, add Aftcote to that list of Resins which solidfy, gel, crystallize - whatever you want to call it. I've got Aftcote, Glass Coat, Pac Bay Rodsmith, and a few bottles of Threadmaster all sitting in teh same spot on my bench for the past few months (50-70 degrees).. THe only Resins which haven't changed are Threadmaster and Rodsmith.

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Re: Mixing Threadmaster
Posted by: Andy Dear (---.79.29.71.ip.alltel.net)
Date: December 26, 2005 10:02AM

Bill,
If you havent yet used the kit I sent you , I think you'll find that it is already quite a high build as it is. It is certainly not a lite finish at all, and is actually very close in viscosity to FlexCoat High build.
We do have plans for an XT (Extra Thick) version sometime next summer, however right now the Color Preserver is at the top of the development list!

Andy

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