Is a fish rod a tool or a work of art? "Is all good structure in a winding stair?" Sure, it could be both, but why do you build 'em? We all have dealt with fishing groupies and confirmed fishermen, but neither group belongs exclusively to the art group or the tool group. Communication would probably be improved if those seeking information on this site were to state their purpose for "rod as tool" or "rod as art."

I'm confused!! I don't understand what it is that you are asking!! What do you mean by "Communication would probably be improved if those seeking information on this site were to state their purpose for "rod as tool" or "rod as art."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I build because I feel that I can build a better rod than I can buy. Why have a distinction between Tool and Art. I think that a fishing rod is a "precision tool/instrument and if it happens to be artistic as well, so much the better. Art is an enhancement, not a function! If you look at the Photo Page and see the work of "thread Artists like Billy Vivona, Mike Joyce, Doc Ski, Jim Upton, etc., don't think for one minute that as beautiful as they are, that they are not also very efficient, precision fishing "tools"!! First and foremost is function, then comes form A "work of Art" isn't worth a dime if it isn't also a precision fishing tool.

I'm curious to see other respomses.


Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Could you roll me one of those ?? LOL Funtion first - then decoration.

I have seen some beautiful rods, art really, that didn't fish very well. Beautiful thread, wood, etc., but very little difference in construction or lay out from most commercially produced rods. Sometimes, I've seen beautiful rods that balanced poorly, cast poorly, weighed too much, were uncomfortable, etc. These were pretty much "wall hangers" from the word go. They wouldn't be much fun to fish with.

On the other hand, I've seen very functional rods that just weren't finished out very well. They probably fished great, but with glue seeped out between joints, gaps in the thread work, poor fit of parts, etc., they couldn't command a very high price.

Then you have the truly functional rod that has also been created by craftsman. Things fit properly, the overall design and execution of everything from the guide spacing to the wraps, handle work, etc., has been done very well, and the result is something that is not only beautiful to look at, but extremely satisfying to fish with as well. In terms of custom rod building, these are the type rods I'm most interested in. They don't necessarily have to have elaborate thread or woodwork, although some do. But whatever is done, is done very well. I suspect these are also the rods that command the most money and have the most loyal customer base.

...........

Speaking from what is probably considered the ART side of the house I can tell you that function comes first in my case and most of the thread artists I know are the same. Phil this is one of the few cases in the world you can have your cake and eat it too. Also please remember ART does not necessarily mean grandios(sp) thread work that takes hours or even days to produce. ART applies to a rod built correctly to perform a given function and just done tight and cleanly. Heck I can even see ART in someone doing an excellent job of plumbing or electrical work, I think some of that is just pride in doing your job right. IMHO.

Back to my cave(to paint on the walls)

"Is a fishing rod a tool, or a work of art?"

How about TOOL -AND- ART ...?

NOT the false dilemma of an "EITHER" "OR" choice,
BUT a well-crafted blend of BOTH engineering AND appealing.

Great question, though, to start an interesting Thread.
-Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****

I certainly do not want to offend anyone but there are quite a few people that I think do absolutely outstanding thread work. I respect and admire the work done by Michael Joyce, Italo Busi, Mark Crouse, Dennis Papike and yes Tom Kirkman. I think that all of them and a number of others are truely outstanding craftsmen and my hat is off to them. But I think that there are just a handfull that go beyond craftsmanship and are artists by virtue of the fact that they did something first or they did something much better than it had ever been done before, people like Hiro Tanaka, Doc Ski, Jim Upton, BD Ehler, Kerry Hansen and Jim Kastorff.
I apologize to those that I have forgotten.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2005 10:56AM by Emory Harry.

There was a quote in a wood sculptors studio. He couldn't remember where he had first heard it but it said. "A laborer is a person who works with his hands. A craftsman is a person who works with his hands and his mind. An artist is a person who works with his hands, his mind, and his heart." All custom rods should definitely be highly efficient tools first and foremost, but from there I think it is up to each individual builder.

If you think of a fishing rod as a tool you can easily see it getting all muddy, scratched and weather beaten from years of fishing. I have seen most of the rods on the photo section and quite frankly, They are like hotrod cars. I would not want to let anything happen to them. It's like the guy who keeps his hotrod in the garage for summer weather driving. Those rods in the photos are just awsome, but are they really practical for fishing.? I can't quite picture some of those masterpieces actually out on the stream, getting all banged up and so on. The better the car or fishing rod looks the worse it looks with ware. It's like a big scratch in a candy apple t-bucket ford verses a big scratch in a volvo. Don't get me wrong, I totally apreciate the labor, intensity and just pure beauty that alot of those rods that you artists have created. There have been many times when I will call my wife over to the rodboard and say " look what this guy has created, Its fantastic". I just try to keep it just a little above factory, but then again I'm a conservative. Good wraps to ya!

Tom N.,

There is a difference between a tool and a fine instrument even if they are designed for the same purpose, Agreed?
Anyone can go to Wal-Mart and get a fishing "tool" and most would be happy to toss it into the back of their truck, drive
the bumpy road to a favorite spot, get out their new "tool" and fish all day while only being concerned that nobody stepped
on the "tool" or slammed the truck door on it! Now, that "tool" will survive more than a few seasons if they are lucky. What
I do not understand is that there a people who would come to one of us and spend a lot more $ for a fine fishing "instrument"
and treat it the very same way! You are correct ! For those type of people a nice custom rod is not practical at all.

On the other side is a person like my step-mom. I built here a custom rod last year for Christmas and when she got it she
said "I can't use that it's too pretty"! I told here I would be very upset if she just hung it on the wall just to admire! I told her not
to worry and enjoy it please! Just take a little extra care and it will last and stay pretty for many years and so what if if it gets a
little messed up, I'll just make it better again! Besides, this is not a swiss timepiece we are talking about here just a fine tuned
fishing rod created to be used and enjoyed. Both in beauty and functionality.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I'm not even qualified to be called an amatuer rodbuilder, really. I guess maybe I pretty much suck compared to alot of you guys. I mean, let's be real. I started building rods, I think your actuall question, because I wanted something I could'nt break in a day or two. Also, because I have not had access, here in podunk, illinois, to custom art rods. If I paid a bunch of money to some rodbuilding gremlin, and the first time I cast real hard the line buzzed, I would probably resort to violence. There is no reason, except for my skill, tthat I cannot build a rod that is both tool and art. I have my mind firmly wrapped around both of those concepts, I make stuff like tools, and I am frequently asked why I am not making money as an artist. (I do paintings and charcoal and pencil drawings, sometimes, when the situation warrents.) So absolutely, thay can be both! I just got some bumps in the road to get over, and I expect to be right up there with anything I can find, customwise. Just, I got different tastes, and I want a rod I can rappel with, and not worry about breaking off the tip if I faceplant. See? You think I'm kidding. Levi

I think the original question is asking us to define our standards of workmanship in the rods we create. That's a great question! It motivates me to evaluate my skill levels at this point and rededicate myself to improve them. Right now I am pleased with the progress I have made in the past few months. Each rod is easier to build and there are fewer tnese moments before attempting any step on the process. Confidence is a big factor in my attempt to become a very good rod builder.

Ihave been focused on learning to build simple yet very well made rods. I am half way there. I hope within ten more rods and I should have it down. Then I'll begin to work with feathers and butt wraps. Once I am pleased with my open wraps I will look into closed wraps. I have done a nice diamond wrap in the past and had trouble with the tieing off process. I'm sure when nI get ther again I will have learned how to finish it off.

I signed up for the Nerb meeting in January so I feel confindent that my learning curve is about to increase dramatically.

Lastly; I feel the need to clarify the terms art and craft.

Art ; by which I mean Fine Art; is an activity that focuses on the production of something which usually requires some form of labor and usually a great deal of skill to satisfy the intent of the artist. Most visual art is concerned with the relating of an idea or expressing an emotion from the item or image to the viewer. The many functions of art through all civilizations include recording the history of a poeple and time; encoding the religious practices of a people, imposing the will of a state or religion, exploring the boundaries of art itself; raising the consciousness of a people; changing the ideals of beauty for a particular historic period; to feed the ego of monarchs and to elevate their status...as well as many others too numerous to name. Art is a process that changes the world in different ways throughout recorded history.

Crafts, on the other hand, also change civilizations in a more practical way. Crafts are the domain of practical items. Tools, articles of clothing, furniture, blankets, decoration, needlepoint, etc. The products of the artisan or craftsman have provided shelter and comfort; made hand work easier and put food on our tables.

Advancements in both fields have been vitally necessary for the very existence of mankind. In my mind one is not higher than the other in value. they are simply different.

We need tools to live. The artistry of a craftsman is not less valid that the craftsmanship of an artist. But please remember that art and craft are two separate disciplines.

Fishing rods are utilitarian tools.Rod builders are craftman when they are building them. However wonderfully they are crafted and embellished they remain tools and would hardly ever qualify to be labeled a work of fine art. Fine Art is the realm of ideas. Crafts are the realm of practical items.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2005 03:47AM by Dave Gilberg.

From what I can tell most builders make rods to fish with first and foremost. This is there intended purpose and are only useful as a tool in this respect. How you arrive at the final fishing tool is part craftmenship and part art. I have some ugly rods that fish poorly and some pretty rods that fish great and vice versa. In my limited experience and opinion it doesn't seem probable that most builders would design and build a rod that is intended to be a tool but for purely the purpose of art. Sure there are some show pieces out there and they certianly are nice but they are not performing the intended function of a fishing rod as tool. It's like a hammer- you can buy a plain jane wood hammer or a hammer that has built in vibration resistence, unbreakable shaft, contoured color grip....but it is still a hammer. Does it work better? Probably! Does it look better? Certianly. Do you want the same old tool as your buddy has? So you choose top notch craftmanship, maybe some flash and better performance. This, in my opinion, is why I choose to take part in the craft. One-up-manship???? Saying, " my rod is custom built, fishes great and it looks fantastic to boot." While your buddy is rocking that walmart special...saying, "my rod is factory built, looks like every other factory rod and fishes ok.....me thinks not!

Art / threadwork takes priority in my case...honestly, my first thought on any custom rod is what its going to look like in the end, even if its black with a single trim band.

Of course, I'll try to make the rod perform well for the application its being used for, use up to date guide spacing information, so that it casts well, fights fish well, ...and make sure those little ring things are in line with the reel seat possition. Rodbuilding isn't rocket science but when they come out with Plutonium Nitrate rings with Tritanium frames...I'll probablly buy a set if I thought it would make a difference in performance.

I like all forms of art and craftmenship on a fishing rod. Intricate handles, feather inlays, EVA inlays, tricked out reel seats, marblizing,flocking, weaving and crosswrapping...most of these aspects I do quite poorly myself, but want to learn to be better at it for some reason. (addictive compulsiveness)

Somebody started this bizarre behavior of embellishing a fishing rod artistically...and I happen to like it.

Arthur O' Toole :)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2005 02:36PM by Michael Joyce.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder - and the beholder is the customer or user. I need the customer to support my obsession and can not leave his wishes out of my product. I have established a rock bottom and that includes all the function items that are required to build a superior custom rod. Negotiable items are all related to art.

The person that leaves Walmart with two popping rods - one for $ 29.95 and the other one for free sees price as his beauty at time of purchase. They probably have no concept of function nor really care - they are going fishing. It is a shame, but twenty years from now fishing rods may be a one time disposable item. When I was in college, last century, the quality of my Gillette Gold Plated Razor was quite high. Who would have ever thought that now I would use a plastic throw away raxor that cost less than the blades of yesteryear and be a happy camper.

Andy Dear gets on my boat and sees a high modulus popping rod laying on the deck that has a flocked grip and nice wrap - he picks it up and catches a nice redfish - I hope you do not think he commented on how nice the chevron looked. I will bet you he could not tell me the color of the rod thirty minutes after he laid it down. His beauty is in performance. Fit and finish to him really has nothing to do with ornate elegance.

My market is some where in between. The stuff has to look good to justify the cost differential between my stuff and the cheapos. Most customers of custom builders really get a bargain on the art side from builders who strive for excellence in all of function issues.

Gon Fishn

Well said.

Function vs. Beauty. There is no reason why the two cannot co-exist. If somebody doesn't use a rod because they think it is too pretty to fish with, doesn't mean the rod isn't a functional rod. I've built rods for folks who refuse to use them on water because they are afraid to ruin it. I also take it as not only a compliment, but a bit of an insult. I want people to use my rods. I think they will enjoy them. But a lack of willingness to fish a rod does not mean that it is not functional. And what Bill just said is brilliant. It's a medium for a lot of people.

Is a custom chopper from Jesse James less worthy of riding than a floor model Fatboy? Depends on your point of view. It is what the customer wants. Personally, I hate building plain jane rods. That is what you can get off the shelf, o a point. Personally, a hate doing a rod with no butt wrap and single color guide wraps. The worst is a customer that has no preference at all, just a well built rod. I can do that with little effort. But I want to do something that will make their rod stand out, not for me, but for them. I want people to notice their rods. I want them to feel how cool it is when somebody admires their rod because it isn't off the rack.

Maybe it is about me??? lol