With the Fuji Concept Guide system - Has anyone played with shimming up the bottom foot of the reel in the reel seat to "create" an intersection with the rod near the top? To "create" a similar outcome with a uplifted / angled reel?
The first rods I built were back in late 1970s I haven't built rods since (of fished that much either - family - kids etc.) and I have a new enthusiasm with the help of Myles Boon (THANKS)
My gear is old - can get the same results if I shim up my reel seat - has anyone experimented?

I think you would get the best results by establishing your own choke point on the blank as described on a post about that earlier in the week. It was from a guy who was building a rod for the old Penn 550 spinning reels I believe. Simple to do. Shouldn't be back more than a few pages.

Yes, many of us have experimented with creating artifical choke points closer to the reel by shimming the seats so that the reel had more upsweep. You will find that it makes almost not difference as reel spool upsweep makes little to no difference anyway. It's a convenient means for locating the choke or intersect guide, but the fact is that once the line leaves the spool gravity begins pulling the line downward, regardless of the amount of spool upsweep. Fishing reels are not like firearms - the line's propelled from the spool, it's pulled from the spool.

If you do experiment with this, make not to create too much upsweep of the bail attachment points or line roller will smack your fingers on every turn.

............

Rob Heaton - the reel's upweep angle has very little effect on all this.
This is a bit of a can of worms. See for yourself. -Cliff Hall+++

Noob - Choke Guide Placement Question Confusion
Jeremy Parkins 11-28-05 16:45 VIEWS – 137 REPLIES – 6 [www.rodbuilding.org]

How do you set up New Guide Concept with no upsweep reel?
Tim Collins 11-24-05 19:36 VIEWS 211 REPLIES 11
[www.rodbuilding.org]
I picked up a Penn 5500SS spinning reel and it's upsweep appears to be negligible and the spool's spindle intersects the blank way, way past the tip somewhere. I remember reading something about a reel with no upsweep but I don't recall how to set one up within the New Guide Concept. If someone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Re: How do you set up New Guide Concept with no upsweep reel?
Daren Howard 11-24-05 20:02
Though it is recommended to go to the intersect in this case, I would pick another reel of roughly the same size and use it's intersect. It will have very little effect on the final casting ability. Switching to the small guides early will save weight at the tip top.

Re: How do you set up New Guide Concept with no upsweep reel?
John Dow 11-24-05 20:13
If I remember the post correctly , put the good flex in the rod with the seat and reel installed and start the running guides just past the start of the deflection . You could do a search. I know I read it somewhere on this site. Have fun. John. Got Fish ?

Re: How do you set up New Guide Concept with no upsweep reel?
Cliff Hall 11-24-05 20:25
"What you'll have to do is just create an artificial intersect/choke point and use that." - Tom Kirkman, July 28, 2005, 08:54PM, the 2nd Post in the Thread: [www.rodbuilding.org]

Just in case you missed it, here's the short and long of it:

New Guide Concept,,,,,,,,,OOOOOPS!!!!!
dick laxton July 28, 2005 20:29 479 Views 21 Replies
[www.rodbuilding.org]
"I set up my rod and spinning reel with the table edge reference to start locating guides, ,,, here’s what happened, the rod and the table edge only come together out there in infinity somewhere. I changed out to a different reel, same story. This is a refinish project and the rod is a converted bait caster to spinning, are the reel seats different on a bait caster than on a spinning?? Stumped again, but what’s new, ..." -Dick Laxton

Re: New Guide Concept,,,,,OOOOOPS!!
Tom Kirkman (Moderator) 07/28/05 08:54PM
"This happens quite often. What you'll have to do is just create an artificial intersect / choke point and use that. Some guys will stand the blank up and flex the blank until it first forms a 90 degree bend. On fast action rods, this is going to happen somewhere in the upper 1/3rd of the rod's length. Find the spot where it first deviates from straight and make that the intersect point. Now put that on the table edge and the reel spool centerline on the table edge, then size & space between those 2 points. ... How long is this rod? Is it very short? More than 5 or 6 feet, use the above. If shorter, come back and ask again and we'll try something different, although the same technique can still work if the blank has a fairly fast taper." -Tom Kirkman

Re: How do you set up New Guide Concept with no upsweep reel?
John Dow 11-24-05 20:43
That was the post I was referring to. Thanks Cliff.
-John Dow "Got Fish ?"

As Mr. Kirkman has said about this 90 degree Flex-Test, he said:
“It's something you pull out of a hat. Not something that has anything to do with the casting dynamics of the rod.”


And about this Intersect Point, he said:
“It's not meant to have any scientific underpinnings.”
Re: New Guide Concept,,,,,,OOOPS!!!!!
Tom Kirkman (Moderator) July 29, 09:03AM
"Using the spool shaft and centerline as a point for locating the first running guide (intersect point) is only done out of convenience. It's not meant to have any scientific underpinnings - it's simply there and because it turns out to provide a reasonable and workable starting point. We use it when we can (and that would be most of the time). In most cases, it turns out to work quite well."

Mr. Kirkman has said, “In fact, there is a better and more optimum way to locate the point where the first running guide should be located. … But I can't get into the specifics in a short message board post.”

Gotta run - to be continued, ... -Cliff Hall+++

And the beat goes on....

I don't know. Having recently received and read Toms book, I know a little more, and understand what's goin on with the choke guide and how some of the guys are determining guide placement via static load and new concept system. I am building a rod so short, with such a large spinning reel, that with Toms method, my choke guide is also my tip ( or so darn close, if I put a guide that close to the tip it would look really, really wrong. Nothing against the method Tom recommends, and I like that he "broke from tradition". We all should, occasionally. I'm not sure if you meant shimming the reel to point its centerline at your tip (" create an intersection with the rod near the top") or shimming to control the placement of the choke guide along the blank. If you did mean to point at the tip, go ahead and set one up. It makes a pretty radicall line angle going into your first, largest guide, or you have to set your first guide way out on the blank. On the rod I'm building, I went 20 tip, 12 inches, 20 ring, 12 inches, 30ring, 14 1/2 inches, 50 ring, then whatever remains of 5 1/2 feet back to the reel. It looks funny. Maybe it wont cast as far. Worst case scenario, It emits a horrible buzz when I cast really hard and the lure kindof wobbles in the air and plops down about 15 feet away and stray line goes floating and tangling. Obviously, I have made grievous errors in guide placement before. S'allright. When you figure out a WAY to setup guides on any rod/reel combo of any length, let me know. And you'll be famous in certain circles. Levi