Rolling the blank while the butt is on a table top and the the upper end of the rod is in my palm the blanks take a set or a bow. Is the outside of the curve the spine side or is the inside of the curve the spine side?
For a casting rod will the guides go on the inside line or the outside line?
Is it the same for both spinning and casting?

The guides go where ever you want them to go. Much to much is made of this spine stuff.

Okay, when you pressure the blank and it snaps and rolls over and comes to a stop, the OUTSIDE of the curve formed is the spine. Now you can put your guides where ever you want.

I don't bother with the spine. I sight down the rod and find the straightest axis or plane. There will be a natural curve to the blank and usually it is in line with this straight axis. So I position it so that the tip and butt are high and the middle area is low. Casting guides go on top, spinning guides on bottom. I don't worry about the spine.

And these days I build most of my casting rods with a spiral wrap so they end up on the bottom of the blank as well.

Don't worry to much about the spine. Like Mike said, the straightest axis with the "belly" down

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike
If I understand you correctly then using the method you discribe if you were making either a spinning or casting rod (I'll ask you what a spiral wrap is in a minute) your guides will end up opposite the spine,assuming the natural curve (tip / butt up) resulted in the same orientation if you tested for the spine (tip/butt up). The difference would then be in how the rod was fished? When spinning the spine would be toward the sky guides toward the water and when baitcasting the spine would be toward the water and guides toward the sky? I read some where that the spine position has impact both on how the rod handles when casting and when playing a fish. Spine up improves casting accuracy for a spinning rig but spine down gives a better feel when playing a larger fish when baitcasting.
What is meant by a spiral wrap? Do you actually end up with your guides on your casting rods on the underside?

Do a search on this site for spine and one for spiral wrap. Check ALL Dates and you will get enough material to take up the rest of the night reading it.

Spine is a much discussed subject and I THINK the consensus is that it doesn't make enough difference to be concerned about (Don't everyone jump at once :) ) On a spiral wrap, most of the guides end up on the bottom like on a spinning rod. Extremely effective! I prefer the "Bumber system where all except the butt guide are on the bottom and a small "bunper" guide is placed halfway between the butt guide and the first guide on the bottom to keep the line off the blank.



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

If you use the straightest axis the spine will generally be off to the side somewhere.

No, the spine has very little if anything to do with casting accuracy or fish fighting ability.

If you'll take a moment and read over the FAQs page here on this site, you can turn up some things on spine that might help you envision this sort of stuff.

Spiral wrapping entails allowing the line on a casting to reel to go under and along the bottom of the rod to prevent rod twist when under load. All casting rods with the guides on top, conventional style, will want to twist when you have a load on them. And no, you cannot prevent this by any particular spine orientation.

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I agree. Too much on spines>
Just looked in the MudHole 2005 catalog and so what you said makes sense. Belly down. There saying though that the inside of the curve is the spine. "In most cases a rod will perform best when the guides and the reel seats are aligned on the blank so that the rod will bend easier toward the fish. This means the spine side down."
On a baitcasting rod then the guides would go on the side opposite the spine since it is fished up. I suppose there must be a little something to it though. Could I measure the difference when fishing? I've never fished anything but a commercial rod. Since I will be making my first rod I figured it would be best to stick to the basics and hopefully get it right (if there is such a thing!) Thanks for your input.

Have any of the commercial guys made casting rods with a spiral wrap? I would think that the prices some of them get they might put out a few. Its sounds like a really logical approach (and would be expensive to mass produce). Would the method for checking the spacing of the guides still be about the same?

Don't confuse the natural curve or warp, with the curve formed under pressure when you're trying to locate the spine. Two different curves there.

The spine is an effect, not a thing. Again, check the FAQs page here.

Most commerically made rod companies disregard the spine and build on the straightest axis as Mike suggested.

Yes, many commercial rod companies have offered spiral wrapped rods over the years. With a few exceptions, they didn't sell well. They perform great but just look "weird" to a lot of fishermen.


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Tom,
Sometime in the early 70's a company tried to market some bass rods done in a spiral wrap. I believe the company was Browning. The rods didn't sell very well in our area. During that time Lew's came out with their Speedstik which everybody wanted and the Browning rods went by the wayside. I think is was due to lack of good marketing. I have heard that spiraling is not new, just hasn't caught on except among the rodbuilders. I have built light popping rods for fishing friends and have had to rewrap them because of rod twist. I recently sent a two piece offshore rod to my son in California which I spiraled wrapped. I called him ahead of time and explained why the guides were not all on top.

Just did a search (first time Ive tried it) and Ive got too much information on spines. Really appreciated the your instruction on the simple spiral wrap with or without a bumper guide.
Im sure I'll be trying it and at the same time Ill see if I can get ahold of a back issue of the Rod Maker issue you referenced.
I have been thinking the natural curve or axis would be reflective of the spine and so Ive learned such isnt the case. I'll be using the search option a little more to. Appreciate the fine forum going on here One of the best on any subject Ive come across.

Ellis the origanal spiral wrap. was done I believe well over 20 yrs ago. An it was called a Roberts Wrap. sence then it has been improved on. Do a search and you well at least 5 or 6 differnt ways to do one. Rod Maker Mad has done a issue on how to do one. I have built trout, Steelhead, Salmon and one Haibut and one Sturgeon Spiral wrapped rods I like them.
Good Wraps Bob

Bob et.all
The original spiral was patented in 1909 by John S. Scanlan of Chicago. So why isn't it called the Scanlan wrap? Joy Dunlap (I believe from Florida) learned the technique from Chuck Roberts, a rodbuilder from Kansas City. In deference to Chuck, Joy always marked his rods which used that wrap as "Roberts Wrap by Joy Dunlap" Hence the name Roberts Wrap can very well be attributed to Joy Dunlap. " Spiral Wrap" is probably recognized as the universaly accepted identification of the design.

Some of the major rod manufactures have made half-hearted attempt to market the design. I have never seen a single one of them successfull, but only for two major reasons. 1. Very poor design due to a lack of understanding of the purpose, and 2. No attempt at marketing the idea.
A couple of years ago I was contacted by a group who were forming a company for the express purpose of marketing a line of casting rods based on the spiral concept. There were big ideas and lots of talk, but nothing ever came of it -- lack of financing I believe was the culprit.

Ralph

Ralph thanks for the up date. I also have to peronally thank Ralph for helping me understand the principles and how to correctly desin a spirol rod. Thanks Ralph. I hope to see you in Woodland in April..
Good Wraps Bob

"The SIMPLE SPIRAL WRAP: The BUMPER SYSTEM"
Author: William "Bill" Colby [RMM-8(2)]
RodMaker Magazine Volume-8, Issue #2, pages 16-17
Back issues ($7 each) available at www.rodmakermagazine.com

The 2 photographs and the 2 illustrations tell it all, and they clarify some of the confusion of the earlier Posts made before Colby's Article in RMM-8(2) was widely available to most subscribers of RMM. ... -Cliff Hall+++

cliff
just ordered the volumn 8 Issue 2 and looking forward to building my first. Thanks for all the information.