Many component suppliers recommend traditional snake guides rather than ceramics for rods nine weight and up. As far as I can tell, all manufacturers put two-footed snakes on "salt water" fly rods. I realize the cost savings, but is there something else I'm missing? I really like BLAG alconites and have had no trouble with "bulky connections." What's the attraction for snake guides in heavier weight fly rods?

Other than "tradition", I don't see any possible advantage of the snakes.

Mike

I'm with Mike. Sure makes your lines last longer also.

No, Phil, you are not missing anything. Most fly fishermen purchase factory rods, and snake guides are what they think should be on a fly rod.

I am a hobbyist, and build 12 to 15 rods a year for friends, family and myself. I am not one who thinks ceramic guides are the best for all fly rods, but for my personal saltwater rods I now use only titanium framed SIC single foot guides. My many fly-fishing friends have all tried my rods, however, and most see no advantage to the ceramic guides. They invariably talk about appearance (“rods with single foot guides look funny”) and/or the casting performance of the rods. Casting is only one aspect of fly rod performance, and in the salt it is not the most important one to me. To my thinking no snake guide made can match ceramic guides when fighting saltwater fish.

Dan:

Are you or your friends saying that ceramic guides do not cast as well as snakes?

No. My friends don't think they are any better than regular snakes as far as casting is concerned.

i think it's time to reevaluate your friends!!!! (chuckling)

this has been discussed many times at this forum. from posts here, single foot ceramics can offer a nice plus to heavier weight rods, and with salt, i THINK the only consideration would be the material used, advising titanium guides. i think less wrapping is the main plus, but there's also the look which could swing someone one way or the other. some have written ceramics allow a farther cast but i think the smoothness/hardness factor may be more scientific. there's also testimony that ceramic inserts on the guides allow for a smoother FEEL than snakes. this factor is usually more of an argument/testimony than any distance ceramics may or may not offer. that feel itself is more subjective if you can discern the diff.

it wouldn't surprise me that snakes are recommended by many manufacturers of fly rods for larger rods, since that's so traditionally ingrained in the rod mentality of off the shelf buyers. let's be honest, snakes are a safe bet. you said component suppliers though. sponsors here? snakes are still a valid point i'd think, but it may be tradition and the safe bet aspect. i admit, i also like the look of snakes, but with me, that's primarily for bamboo fly rods. so you can see tradition plays a part for me too. ;-)

relatedly, i don't wrap larger than 5 weight rods, so far.

eric
fresno, ca.

I wonder why all the heavy line fly rod overhead tournament casters (both single and 2-hand) have their rods made with either standard snakes or single foot snakes when the rules allow them to use any guides they wish? These guys are having the rods built to their specs from the few blanks available for heavy fly rod distance, and they are all casting in excess of 200' with the single-hand 9' and in excess of 210' with the 17' rods. Perhaps they know something the rest of us don't.

well, for ONE thing, they know how to cast!!! ;-)

eric
fresno, ca.

So every thing said about ceramics on this board is " bull " ???

Bill,
Just curious - Where do you get that idea from these posts??

That was a little harsh. Sorry
Cause people say ceramics are a lot better then snake and single wire
But I still see so many using snakes ??? Even on heavy salt rods ??
Even on other builder's sites. Not the big companies but other builders sites. Lists of rods for sale - with snakes.
Some people say they use Hardloy ring guides with wire ???

Must be for the money ???

Bill, Old habits/traditions die hard. I understand that Loomis originally made all of their casting rods in a spiral wrap but couldn't sell them so the switched to conventional. I would guess that the vast majority of professional angles use traditional wraps and traditional guide set ups. Does that make them better? Not in my opinion

I just reread the posts and didn't get the impression that any of them said that snakes were better. Ross mentioned the tournament casters but don't forget they are casting NOT fishing.

I think that this Board is the greatest source of information/opinion exchange available to the builder but I wouldn't base my opinion on the posts of a half dozen people's opinions (myself included). I prefer to take them for what they are, opinions, and combine them with my own opinion/experience.


Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2005 10:26PM by Mike Barkley.

I know what you mean.
It's the old do I want to make a better rod, or sell more ?? Hmmmm
Sure can use the money ???

Russ, perhaps because tournament casters use thin mono shooting line the guides don't matter much in the slickness department. It's different with normal fishing lines.
Cheers

Russ brings up a good point.

Why if they can have any guide they want - do they prefer wire ??