After giving the New Guide Concept some thought as well as Cliff Hall's threads, it seems to me on the current New Guide Concept that line efficiency is reduced because because the line cone coming off the spool has to bend upward toward the blank to get to the butt guide. Why not line up the spool spindle with the inside edge (furthest from the blank) of the ring on the intersection guide and then place the remaing lower guides so the "edge of the table" bisects the center of the guide ring instead of the top edge of the frame? Seem to me this would allow for a symmetrical line cone from the spool spindle down to the intersect guide and it would choke through a concentric arrangement of symetrical guides that would be on the SAME axis - seems perfect to me.

I realize the guides would be moved forward a bit more toward the tip but using slightly larger guides might move them back toward normal spacing. I know the larger guides are heavier and this reduces rod efficiency but we're only whipping the rod once to launch the lure. And if you've got a 15# Salmon out on 70 yards of line in a strong river current, I can't see where a couple of extra grains in the guide weight makes all that much difference. I'm sure someone has thought of this before but why isn't it discussed. Thanks.

Read the article on the online library page. They are on the same axis. If you set it up that way, the line will travel in a straight path and that's what you want it to do.

By the way, the line always has to move upward from the spool to the butt guide - gravity is pulling the line downward just as soon as it leaves the spool, regardless of spool upsweep. That's why spool upsweep isn't very important to overall casting quality.

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Well I must be a lot dumber than I look because when I read the article, my interpretation is the outside edge of the table is lined up with the top edges of the guide frames. My original thoughts were to put the centerline (table edge) of the spindle on the inside edge of the intersect guide ring (side furthest from the blank) and the remaining lower guides lined up with the table edge centered directly in the center of the ring. I realize the guides in the Concept method are in a straight line - but to me they don't appear to be along the "centerline" of the spool axis itself. I'm just trying to have the guides and the line cone that's formed on the same "centerline or axis" - I just can't see any alignment that does this other than what I've described. When I get ready to build shortly I'll set my guides up as I'm trying to describe and report back later how badly it failed. Thanks for all the help guys.

If you do that you end up with much larger guides which reduce distance due to the extra weight which will be significant. As Tom said, the line falls due to gravity so putting the guide centers on the table edge doesn't buy you anything but larger and heavier guides. Your distance will go down, not up. I've tried it. If you read the original article on the NGC in Rodmaker they said that was why they fell back and put the edge of the guide along the table edge instead of going through the center like Fuji says to do.

I misunderstood what you were saying. Shawn is correct, doing it that way, with the guide ring/s center on the table or straightedge, only increases guide height/size to a point that is counterproductive. Besides, the line is going to travel along the outer edge of the guide rings, not down the center. Gravity precludes that from happening. No reason not to try it for yourself but I can tell you that you won't improve your casting distance and may actually reduce it by a bit.

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That is why I like the Fuji Concept guides. They bring the correct size ring to the propper height for the line. You can get more to the center of the ring, not totally necessary but just easyer to set up. IMHO

LGTM = "Looks Good To Me" Method"
After reading this Thread and some e-mail communications with Tim Collins, I am back to thinking more again about the statics and dynamics of the line flow during the cast of a spinning rod, and about some ways to rank or prioritize the various considerations for guides, placement and the energy losses in the system. I'm gonna wait another couple of days and see if this new vision clarifies things. If so, I'll post later in the week. Hopefully, short and sweet, ... LOL, -Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++

"Tell a man what to do, and you'll feed him for a day.
Teach a man how to think, and soon, he may be feeding you."
-Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++