There are probably very few of us that wear gloves and masks while handling the every day epoxies , solvents and all the other chemicals .How do we know some of these chemicals aren't being absorbed thru the skin ,lungs and into our blood supply?I know what your thinking,I've been doing this for 25 years with out any side effects.Let me point out that you probably have to smoke well into you adult life before you MAY recievce the unwanted effects of of this chemical.My point being it could be accumulative over many years .This isn't a scare tactic, it's a concern for all of us. Any chemistry majors out there?

This has been covered by several people, several times, tehre's at least one article in Rodmaker Magazine about it.

CLiff hall has been teh most recent to post a ton of info on what this stuff does, but tehre are a whole bunch of others who have as well, links, etc.

Thanks Bill, Should have done a search before I wrote this ,my error.

It's a great point you bring up, and something people should be aware of. I know there is a lot of info in the archives on this particular topic because I was researching it the other day. CLiff had a big long essay on the effect each of the common solvents we use. Clff has a lot of big long essays, lol.

Billy Cliff knows how to type well and fast. LOL

Billy,I noticed that while relaxing working on a rod the B-12 that I absorb causes my vision to get blurry but that is about it.Sometimes it causes a headache in the morning to.IT deffinetly bothers the wife to.




B-12 =12oz Budwieser


Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

If you get like that from a B-12, I'm sure glad you don't mess wiht no B - complex vitamins. Bud, Becks & Bacardi. You'd be in all sorts of trouble with that, lol.

Drinking & wrapping is a bad match for me. I cut my finger with razorblades, had my knuckle smashed by a chuck , mess up the wraps - and for what? No more drinking and wrapping.

Bill:

All of the solvents we normally use - Isopropanol, Denatured Alcohol, Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone - evaporate into the air. We breathe them into our lungs, and they enter the blood stream that way. None, in large quantities will do you any good. For most small work rooms, a simple 35-45 ml of denatured alcohol, completely vaporized, will fill the room with sufficient material to be at the threshold of damage to the body. None of these are skin absorbers. What you can do is to minimize your use of the solvent, and keep the solvent-soaked cloths or filters in a tight metal can between uses, and use ventilation. Please, do not work in a completely closed space with no ventilation. I use an old fruitcake tin to keep my solent-soaked wipes between uses.

The greatest risk from these solvents is not their potential human effects, but the fact that they are flammable. You limit the amount used/stored on the work bench, keep smokes well away, and put used wipes into a tin between uses. They also have a secondary effect, espeically the ketones - in that they defat the skin. After using them, make sure you replace the essential skin oils with a good skin cream after you finish at the rod bench.

Doug Weber
Weber Rod Works

Bill:

All of the solvents we normally use - Isopropanol, Denatured Alcohol, Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone - evaporate into the air. We breathe them into our lungs, and they enter the blood stream that way. None, in large quantities will do you any good. For most small work rooms, a simple 35-45 ml of denatured alcohol, completely vaporized, will fill the room with sufficient material to be at the threshold of damage to the body. None of these are skin absorbers. What you can do is to minimize your use of the solvent, and keep the solvent-soaked cloths or filters in a tight metal can between uses, and use ventilation. Please, do not work in a completely closed space with no ventilation. I use an old fruitcake tin to keep my solent-soaked wipes between uses.

The greatest risk from these solvents is not their potential human effects, but the fact that they are flammable. You limit the amount used/stored on the work bench, keep smokes well away, and put used wipes into a tin between uses. They also have a secondary effect, espeically the ketones - in that they defat the skin. After using them, make sure you replace the essential skin oils with a good skin cream after you finish at the rod bench.

Doug Weber
Weber Rod Works

WOW, is this Thread ever about something completely unexpected - LOL !!!

ERIK KUNZ is another Author in the Archives who can speak with justified authority on this subject. He is a CIH = Certified Industrial Hygienist in OSHA. He gave a great summary on Gloves in: "Re: ACETONE? NOT on YOUR HANDS !!! ... Erik Kunz ... 10/19/04 [www.rodbuilding.org]

I, Cliff Hall, have a @#$%&Chemistry, with 14 years on the benchtop in (mostly medical) research, with some HPLC, which uses LOTS of exotic solvents. And I am now a 4th year student in pharmacy school. My most recent commentary on Glues & Solvents was: "Before I glue my fingers together... John Kepka...10/01/05 " ... [www.rodbuilding.org] "

Re: About solvents ... Cliff Hall ... 01-04-2005
There are many Posts on this subject (Solvents, Alcohol, Acetone, etc.).
Here's a brief refresher and some definitions.

DENATURED ALCOHOL = 91% ETHANOL + 5% METHANOL + 4% WATER

ETHANOL = the "ALCOHOL" found in beer, wine & liquor.

METHANOL = the "WOOD" alcohol. Highly toxic when ingested.

ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL = the "rubbing alcohol". Usually 70% or 91%.

ACETONE = the "nail polish remover" ketone. Powerful solvent.

METHYL ETHYL KETONE = the "MEK" ketone found in brush cleaner.

ALCOHOLS and KETONES are different types of organic solvents.
Generally, alcohols are safer than ketones, and sufficently
strong solvents for most clean-up applications in rod building.
All organics solvents should be used with ventilation.
Skin contact should be avoided. All these solvents are flammable.
- Cliff Hall, @#$%&Chemistry & bench-top chemist for 14 years. -

For even more information, see the Thread:
"ACETONE? NOT on YOUR HANDS !!!" [Cliff Hall 10-19-04 03:01]
*[http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,118163,118163#msg-118163]*
*[http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,118095,118162#msg-118162]*

Cliff,

I got my PHD in Cemistry 34 years ago. I am now retired from Dupont R & D. All of these solvents (and chemicals) we work with in rod building are toxic to a varing extent. I think you left out one, Xylene in Permagloss. All these things are not good for ones health. My advise to anyone is minimize exposure to these things that your days may be long. (Gloves, dust mast, etc. all reduce exposure). Also be aware that many of the exotic woods used in reel seats can cause alergic reactions. (cocobolo, ebony, etc) Please read all warning labels before you use these things and follow instructions.

Ed

BTW - Doug Weber's (Weber Rod Works) REPLY above is especially notable. Avoid FUMES or FIRE.

BTW - NEVER USE LINSEED OIL indoors, or store linseed oil-soaked paper or rags indoors. It can SELF-IGNITE (spontaneously combust) upon evaporation from the heat of the oxidation reaction. MANY a cabinet shop or artist studio has burnt to the ground from such an unforeseen danger.

If at all possible, keep solvents off your skin. They all de-fat it, and prolonged exposure and repeated use can cause various forms of annoying and sometimes long-term dermatitis. -Cliff Hall+++

P.S. - Thank you, Ed Smith, for your rejoinder. With your credentials on guard, I could take the rest of the year off. ... PermaGloss (PG), which is a moisture-curing urethane in xylene solvent, is perhaps the most offensive thread finish with respect to fumes, and the XYLENE is the main reason. Great solvent, but TOO powerful for clean-up use. And ACETONE should likewise be avoided for similar reasons. -CMH.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2005 09:50PM by Cliff Hall.

I feel even dumber now. First I couldn't understand teh Orvis catalouge, now I'm re-taking Sophomore Chemistry all over again.

Too much confusion, keep it simple. USe Iso Alcohol for general clean up. Use Denatured alcohol to really make sure something is clean....like getting ALL the epoxy off the blank after installing foam grips,. Use Acetone sparingly and only if epoxy is set up and almost hard (like some seeped out of a joint overnight), to thin epoxy (if you're into this), and keep it off blanks.

THat's for me, everyone is free to use Xylol, MEK, Ethanketoneahol or whatever.

PS - I'm not argueing that PErmaglos gives off teh most fumes, but Crystal Coat had to be at least close, if not worse.

On the other side of the coin...
back in the early 70's ( I was still in high school) ,I worked in a rod plant for 4 years( pultrusion molding-solid glass rods). the boss would literally wash his hands & arms in a pail of acetone ! Phil had done it for 10 years before I got there-it was just the way he did it-after setting up the molds & ovens,or changing the resin in the vats, we'd be coated with polyester resin-so we'd just go wash in the pail.( How the place never exploded is beyond me..guys would smoke in there !!) He sold out in the late 80's & I always figured his arms would fall off someday,but ,I saw him the other day & he's OK & 68 yrs. old...Maybe he built a tolerance to it.

N owonder COntact Cement doesn't hold good enouhg for you, the fumes from your Acetone arms break it down, lol.

Another NASTy solvent is Weldwood Contact Cement thinner. I don't know what is in there as I don't have the can in front of me, but it gets me sick as soon as it touches my skin.

Billy..I LOVE that stuff..smells GREAT !

WOW - I am surprised the hair didn't fall of your arms. Or your airways and lungs and brain survived such exposures to Acetone. You all must have 750 HP livers to detoxiify that stuff. ... But as a chemist who has smelt many different and dangerous liquids, it is funny how appealing some of these odors are. The most dangerous ones (concentrated acids or bases) seem to have no odor until you are right on top of them, and then it is too late. They have no mercy - they can burn your eyes and lungs in one breath and send you to the sink for a fresh water wash down in a hearbeat, and scare the willies out of you, to boot. Thank God for modern FUME HOODS and OSHA and MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets). -Cliff Hall+++

I always figured his skin would peel off by the time he was 60,but ,he looks great.

Personally,I'm addicted to the fumes of...5 min. epoxy(my favorite), MEK is good, I LOVE the smell of crystal coat, I like the smell of LS supreme-I mix it & let it harden in the cup just to put me in the rodbuilding mood-never cared for it as a finish.

But then,being in the bowling business,I'm used to laying down,coating the pindecks with pure urethane( What a buzz! ) ! And,growing up in the oil fields, as kids,we'd open the manhole on the crude oil tanks & stick our heads in there till we got dizzy ! cheap high ! Why none of us kids ever died..I dunno ..

If you need more info do a search on "OSHA" and "NIOSH"...both have pocket guides that show how brutal some compounds can be and how they can effect you....I'm just glad that when I'm working on a rod, I'm not dealing with the Benzenes, Ethyl Benzene, and all the little baby Benzenes,..... I get enough of them at work.


Try to LIMIT exposure time to some of the solvents, proper ventilation is a good practice( "solution to pollution is dillution")....

Harv, good thing there wasn't any H2S in any of those crude oil tanks. Over 60% (my best guess) of the oil wells around here would've killed you had you done that.

Putter
Williston, ND