More questions from a newbie. I just received my new surf blanks (mudhole 1322's) and I have a couple of wrenches thrown at me. First, the tip top size is an 11 and I have size 12 tip tops. Should I cut the blank down to where it is a 12 or build it up with tape? Secondly, the top section of the blank fits over the butt section instead of into it. I've never seen that, and this really shows my inexperience. To me, obviously I should do ferrul wrap on the top section of the blank, but should I do one on the butt section also, where the top section stops? Also, shouldn't there be some plugs that go inside the butt section on both ends? I asked this question when I made my purchase and they told me it's already done. So I'm just checking on that one. One of these days I'm going to be able to contribute to this forum and plan on doing so. Until then your responses are truly appreciated.

I would build up a little thread on the tip, if you cut the rod down you will change the action and it can be a bit unpredictable on what you wind up with. The top section fitting over the butt section is pretty much the norm and yes you should wrap the female ferule before you put any kind of stress on the rod and you don't have to and probably should do a ferule wrap on the butt section. Yes there should be a plug on the male/butt section of the blank that fits into the female ferule.

Thanks. The more I play with these blanks, I think the male section isn't going to get a wrap. I mean with the sliding in and out all the time, I'm sure there will be some wear and it will change where it seats a little. I thought there should be a ferrul plug, I think I can pick up one locally. I should have been more specific about the top. How bad will the action change? I would like to throw 8oz plus bait and that is on the upper end of the blanks specs. If it is too mushy with that I'll try 6oz. But would cutting just a little help throw 8 and bait? Just thinking.

Personally, I would stay away from cutting on the tip end. You can mix a small amout of Rod Bond (even color it if you want to) and push it into the blan/ferrulle ends for plugs but make sure you wipe the blank clean after wards. You can also use bath tub caull.

Mike

The only reason I considered cutting is because I watched seeker's video on their website and they cut the tips of their rods when building them. Maybe that's because in the manufacturing process they come out longer than needed. I don't know. Perhaps someone that does could chime in here. Mike, are you saying to using rod bond or caulk instead of a plug, or use it to adhere the plug? Cut Rate tackle here in Houston has a pretty complete line up of accessories, just not many surf blanks, so I can buy all the "right" stuff pretty easily.

I'm sure he ment instead...caulk applied inside the male tip becomes the plug when dry-as does the rod bond.
just put some in ,wipe level with the blank, and clean up any that might get on the outside.

Ok, now I'm getting creative thoughts. I'm thinkin making a cork plug and expoxy'n it in there. The only thing is my other store bought rods have a rubber plug that sticks up above the blank about an 1\8 inch and is flush with the blank. Now that would keep the male section from entering the top section by an 1\8 inch. What gives here? Does it act as a "cushion"? I bought some really nice and expensive hardware to go on these blanks and I'm just trying to do this right. Also I've got two suggestions on the tip top, to not cut, thread, and tape. Pros and cons? Sorry, but someday I'll catch enough fish to help with my obsessive compulsive attention to detail nature. For now, I'm still learning.

Build the tip up with thread, or get a smaller tip-top. Don't cut your blank, even a couple inches will noticeably change it.

You can fill the end of your butt section's male ferrule with a dab of RodBond or a piece of snug fitting EVA or cork.

..............

Q1: "First, the tip top size is an 11 and I have size 12 tip tops. Should I cut the blank down to where it is a 12 or build it up with tape?"

A1: IMO, That difference in size (1 / 64th inch) on a size 11-12 / 64ths inch rod tip is tolerable, and can safely be filled by your glue. If the mouth of the tube has a little "ledge" on it, where the oversizing steps up from the rod blank, and you feel that it may rub or catch your fishing line, then a fore-wrap with thread can easily be built into a ramp that makes a flush meeting with the mouth of the tip-top's tube.

DO NOT use any tape in the area of the rod tip to be covered by the tip-top's tube. That tape's adhesive may get dry-rot or wet-rot on you and fail. Or the heat of hot-melt glue (if that is what you use) may make it fail. Or a 2-part epoxy may find the tape surface too slick to stay stuck to it. Either fill the gap with glue, or use a spiral of small diameter thread (like a Nylon size A or Silk-00). Dry fit first to check fit. Or reduce the gap slightly by trimming off a few millimeters of length. BUT if you don't use calipers to measure your blank's OD at the new MOUTH point, NOT the tip-point, and you cut off too much rod blank, you'll be back to square ONE, so watch out.

Q2: "The only reason I considered cutting is because I watched Seeker's video on their website and they cut the tips of their rods when building them. Maybe that's because in the manufacturing process they come out longer than needed. I don't know. Perhaps someone that does could chime in here."

A2: IMO, Trimming the end of the rod tip by a few millimeters is done by some rod-builders to remove end-damage to the fiberglass or graphite rod blank's tip, before mounting the tip-tip guide. Use an X-acto razor saw or Dremel tool cutting wheel, or another extra-fine tooth saw blade, IF you find this trimming to be necessary.

IMO, With an 11 foot (132 inch) surf rod like you have, IF the tip is funny, or damaged or weirdly fused or non-uniform in some way, you can remove 0.5 cm or up to 2.0 CENTIMETERS (NOT inches), and still not do jack to the overall rod action. Just watch the blank's OD where the tip-tube reaches over and covers the rod blank. But, if it ain't broke, don't fix it - leave the rod blank's tip as is.

LOL, -Cliff Hall+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2005 04:42PM by Cliff Hall.

Thank you. I didn't even consider the mouth opening of the blank and what to do with the gap, just how loose the 12 felt on there. Now that I look at my other rods some more (size 4-5 tip), the wrap is larger in diameter than the tip top. No way is this going to happen on these blanks. As a matter of fact, the diameter of a wrap is going to come nowhere close to the mouth of the tip top. I'm going to take the blank to cut rate and try to fit a 10 on there before I do anything drastic. That's going to suck if it fits because my tip top matches my guides and they don't make one in a 10, maybe I'll find one similar or just completely reorder the guides. But what effect would an underwrap have on the action versus shaving a few millimeters? Chunking 8 and bait to the moon and setting the weight in the sand is these rods purpose. Casting is the only time I want the action. With 8 oz of weight on there I'm not trying to "feel" a fish strike, and if a 40" bull red hits it, I'll know.

Robert, I trimmed 2 inches off of med action walleye rod a while back and it killed the action of the rod. It is not useless, but it slowed the action down much more than I would have ever expected for 2 inches. I say leave the lenght and build up the tip or get a new tip top. Someone has to make something close to the rest of the guides.

This might have just been my experiance (and I'd like to hear what others think)but....
DON"T use epoxy to glue anything in the opening of the male ferrul......been there -done that!
With one good hard cast you'll hear a loud "CRACK" as the epoxy seperates from the inside of the blank.
When put under stress there is a lot of compression in there that epoxy does not like!
I'm not talking rod bond, but epoxy.

Robert,
Since you are going to FTU for a tip, why not ask the short thin guy in the repair section for advice. He is an expert when it comes to surf rods. Go to Ace Hardware and buy a rubber plug and glue it in the tip end. Personally all I throw on my surf rods is 4 ounces plus the bait which comes to about 6 ounces total. I think I would kill myself trying to lob 8 ounces.

You're right, 8 is alot. I guess I'm a little of a show off. I heave the holy #@!& out of my surf rods, especially when I'm not catching anything in close. Honestly, 8 is the largest that they sell at FTU or I'd have tried more. On my 10 footer 4 or 6 is all I can load up, and I'm hoping I can load up 6 or 8 on these new ones. I only know Warren at FTU, is the short guy there or at the one on the gulf freeway? If you're in Houston or there about and fish the surf send an email. I go almost exclusively to Matagorda, just because I know it so well but would like to try other areas. I fish alone mostly unless I take the wife and kids. Not all friends make good fishin buddies and all my fishin buddies fish the many bay systems with boats, which is alright but they won't rough it in the surf. That is until I took one guy there and we stood in one spot and bagged a limit of specks in one hour. But still the waves were too rough, or they loose to much gear (not prepared for the surf), there are too many sharks....you probably know what I mean.

I meant the little guy at the main store. Warren is a very good rod builder also. He helped me get started over 20 years ago. I presently use an eight foot rod for the surf. I do most of my surf fishing in the winter. I have a rod that I built using a Fenwick 965 blank that is my favorite. I have four American Tackle blanks that I need to tie up for this winter. My retirement keeps me too busy, fly fishing, tying flies, fishing the bay and traveling.

Ok, went to FTU formerly cut rate, and a 10 won't fit. Talked to a guy at mudhole and he suggested maybe I try the bnnsg guide because it has a 10-11 tip top. Warren also offered a couple of suggestions about cutting or epoxying the tip top, so I think I'm loaded with options, none of which I think will be wrong. I also had a few questions about the guide sizing which both people I spoke to answered. I am using LRSG guides and I didn't like the massive frame size of the 25's and both told me I'd be alright using the 20's on the butt. They also only offer the tip top in a 12/12 and I have some 10's and although they both said getting closer to the blank would be the best and the 12 on the end is no problem they also said that using all 12's towards the end would be fine too. So, I have some things to think about while I'm building some handles. In the mean time if any of you have opinions on these guide sizes I'd like hear them. It'll go 20,16,16,12,12,12,12 tip top. Thanks in advance.