Just finished applying the 1st coat of Flex Coat on my last rod and in 3 small spots the thread turned absolutely black, not just a bleed through mind you, absolutely black.

The Blank is a St Croix 2S70MLF2, Black, and the colors are Gudebrod Teal, Pink and some Sulky blues mixed in. I put 2 flood coats of color preserver (BD Classic Rod Coatings Acrylic Color Preserver) on this rod, and I mean flood coats.

Anyone have any idea what went wrong? Is this something with the paint on the blank? I have used these threads and color preserver combo before without a problem.

Makes me sick to think I need to re-wrap this rod. I have at least 4 hours into the butt wrap alone:( not to mention the guide wraps and the custom made white cedar handle and reel seet.

When I cut off all the thread and re-wrap is there anything I can do to prevent this again?

Did you thin the color preserver? If you did then that was probably the problem. I've learned not to thin mine as you only end up putting water on the threads when you do and water won't seal them against the final finish. Just a possibility.

Nope I put the color preserver on full strength, I have thinned it in the past and also found that it doesn't work as well too. When I thinned it and had some issues it just discolored the thread a little, this is way past just a minor discoloration:(

I just checked it an the black is spreading out from where it started.

This is a tough one, without being able to actually see it. I've not used the particular CP you mention so I can't really say how effective it is at preserving color of threads on dark blanks. If the dark area is expanding, then it can only be because the finish is continuing to soak into the threads which have not been effectively sealed. Maybe this was your fault, and maybe it wasn't.

Bad batches of product aren't common but neither are they impossible. Was this a new bottle of CP? Did you do anything else differently? Have you sealed Sulky thread with it before?

Wish I could be more help but this is a pretty odd thing to happen. Maybe somebody else will kick in with a similar experience and a possibly culprit.

..........

I have used this bottle of color preserver on at least 10 rods and I have used it to seal sulky threads on 3 other rods and all these rods were dark blanks with at least some sulky light colors.

It is also turning the Gudebrod teal black in spots too, so it isn't just a sulky problem. That would be the easiest fix, don't use the sulky thread.

I am very fussy about color preserver, so I make sure that I give everything at least 2 heavy coats to ensure complete coverage.

I wonder, when you "turning black" are you talking about the normal dark translucency that occurs when finish is applied to un-sealed thread, or is it actually turning an opaque black?


.................

As far as I can see it is turning absolutely black. I have had in the past when I thinned the color preserver it would bleed or turn translucent, but this is black black. In the butt wrap area it is accross 5 different colors and the black spot is just black no variance. I was thinking exactly what you are, but it is a solid black blotch.

I am thinking it is my color preserver and paint on the blank combo that is not working right, but not sure about that either. This color preserver has worked very well for me in the past.

It kinda looks like the paint disolved and ran over the thread.

What about Contamination ? Grease? What type and make of paint ? Was it dry ?
But then it sounds like you know what your doing.

You may be correct. I'm not familiar with that brand of finish and if it contains a solvent, this could be your problem. Still, it doesn't seem quite right. The paint on most rod blanks will withstand most common solvents (the only exception would be the St. Croix SCV fly blanks).

Wish I could be more help but I'm afraid I'm stumped for the time being. I'd just look at the whole routine and see if I did anything different - different type of brush, different mixing container, different finishing environment, etc.

....................

Royal bummer, Scott!

I had something similar happen on a rod last year that I never quite figured out. With a grey, garnet and cobalt diamond wrap on a grey blank, using glass coat cp. Everything looked great after the cp, but after finishing, I had many blotches where the thread turned a nearly uniform dark grey color. The blotches were packed just as tightly as the "clean" areas. My theory is that oil from my hands and wiping my nose, etc, had something to do with it. I usually keep my fingers clean with alcohol while wrapping, but on that one I didn't since it was a rod for myself and I was just goofing around. It's the only thing I did differently, and sitting down doing a "dry run", recreating the wrap, the blotches were in areas that my fingers handled the thread most and actually handled the wrapped area while turning. Why the blotches appeared only after applying finish, especially with glass coat CP, which is nearly a finish by itself, I'm still clueless.

I'm not familiar with your CP, but with all the SCII's I've done, I've never seen a finish, much less a cp, that would eat the paint on them.

I done 5 other SCV11 rods and no problems makes me wonder if this one had a flawed finish on the paint.

That could be so. I have gotten a blank that the butt and the tip were different colors.
They are only human.
Maybe try to call them on it ?

After reading all the posts a couple of things come to mind. I scrub my hands everytime I head to the rod builder area, I even was my hands if I go get a cup of coffee. But other people?

1. I showed this rod/butt wrap to several people who may or may not have touched the problem areas. It was before the final coat of color preserver so I was pretty sure that I was safe.

2. I don't do any more than just wipe down the rod with a paper towel before I wrap them. I never had a problem with this before so I never thought too much about it.

I did send an email off to St. Croix with and copied my original post in there looking for some insight from them.

Anyone care to share how they clean their blanks before wrapping? And maybe another good brand of color preserver? I am open to suggestions on what maybe a better solution to a problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2005 12:27PM by Scott VanGuilder.

Scott,
I polish gloss blanks with Meguires super X and then give a good wipedown with alcohol. Matte blanks get just an alcohol wipedown. I do it in good lighting and make sure there are no streaks of anything when they dry. As far as CP, I've only ever used Flex Coat and Glass Coat.

If you decide to re-wrap, make a sketch and use some tape on the ends of the wrap to mark some index points. Then when you peel off te wrap, you'll be able to check the surface of the blank exactly where the blotching was and see if the paint did indeed come up. You'll be able to look at the wrap from the inside out too to see if the thread is the same color as the the finished side. I'll be pretty interested to find out what happened.

I have asked the same question before. The suggestion that I got was to paint the rod section where you are going to use lighter colors, white. I had the same thing happen when I used orange thread over black thread but I used Gudebrod 811 CP and they still turned black. I was told to never use light colors over dark colors. I'd try it once you strip the blank back down.

Bill in WV

Scott,
My Dad had the exact same problem happen to him and I posted a similar question.

go to
[www.rodbuilding.org]

You can also try the search button for more discussions.

If anyone ever determins the exact cause of this problem PLEASE share it here!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I stay away from light over dark threads. A good friend just cut off a wrap where he wrapped light over dark in teh background, 2 coats of CP - blotches all over anyhow. I think the tension onteh thread, how they are packed have an effect on teh result. Can't prove it, but when I had blotches it was mostly tight wraps which I had to do a lot of packing, and light over dark threads.

Why the dark spot is spreading out - the CP didn't fully seal teh outside of the wrap, epoxy got in between the threads, and spread from the inside out. If you cut the wrap off, I bet you'll find when you look at teh inside of thewrap the threads will have no CP on them, and where the thread turned dark - it will be hard from teh epoxy soaking in.

I am going to take a few photos and then cut the wrap and the guides off tomorrow. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards some kind of contamination either on the blank or oily finger marks on the threads after wrapping. I have used similar colors on dark color blanks with good results in the past, so I am thinking this some kind of color preserver failure.

I use cheater glasses and a halogen light when wrapping and pack pretty dang tight I can't stand those unsightly gaps.

The darkest color on the wraps was Teal, the thread colors didn't bleed through

I will post what I find.

Its probablly a CP problem, along with the fact that these days alot more people are using threads other than Gudebrod nylon for wraps, myself included,...so junk like silicone, natural,and non natural fibers may come into play? Who knows?....I've had the "Aaaaaargh!!" factor come into play, and like it no less than you do. Billys point of light threads over darker ones definately effects the final outcome of any wrap. ...pics will help everyone.

Did you seal and finish the white cedar handle before you wrapped the guides? Clear cedar sap from unfinished wood could easily and invisibly transfer to guide wraps, and turpentine is made from evergreen sap?