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Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Cliff Hall (---.dialup.ufl.edu)
Date: September 12, 2005 12:25AM

To All my Fellow Rod-Builders and Visitors at RodBuilding.Org (RBO): A Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?

First, Imagine a world –and your life– without any of these:

RBO: No more RodBuilding,Org. No more Forum. No more Search Engine. No more Thread Tracking. No more RBO to answer your questions, show what you know, help out your fellow rod builder or try out some new ideas.

RBO Photo Gallery: No more RodBuilding,Org/PhotoPost. No more eye-candy. No more place to show off what you got. No more place to see if you can do that, too. No more User Gallery as a mini-monument to your skills, or good buddy feedback system to spur you on. No more psychedelic marble or fire-breathing dragons.

RMM: No more RodMaker Magazine. Zippo. Nada. Gone. No more anticipation at the mail box for the last 3 weeks of every other month. No more stimulating articles. No more instructions with pictures for new tools and techniques. No more in-depth discussion of the art & science of rod-building. No more industry news. No more thought-provoking interviews or rebuttals. No more slick centerfolds or grip templates. No more growing archive of great stuff for future reference.

RBO Show: No more of the World’s Largest and Most Successful Rod-Building Show in history in Charlotte, NC, … or anywhere else, for that matter. At least not by comparison. No one place to go to see what’s really going on in the industry. Or attend all those seminars for things that don’t make sense to you on paper. No one place to go to meet all those characters you’ve been posting with at RBO. No way to meet that buddy face-to-face and go over some things in person. And no annual pilgrimage for the largest haul of blanks, components, supplies and resources your wallet (or your marriage) can handle.

How would you feel if one day, 20 months, 20 weeks, 20 days or 20 hours from now, if all that were GONE? … Poof. No more. A Dios. … Or even just one part of it: No more RBO, or PhotoGal, or RMM or The Show. … How would you feel?

I don’t know about you, but it would feel like someone in the family had died, or a communal loss, like 9-11 or Hurricane Katrina had happened, to me.

NOW here’s the real question: WHAT WOULD YOU PAY TO GET IT BACK? If it is anything less than the original cost of your rod wrapper, please think again.

Let’s learn a lesson from New Orleans. They knew it could happen. They knew what needed to be done. The time for us to act is before it’s too late. They sang “Fat Tuesday” for weeks on end. But let’s not forget that Ash Wednesday and some leaner days could lay ahead for all of us if we are not careful now.

Membership dues in professional societies and associations, and subscriptions to their trade journals usually cost over $100, if not hundreds of dollars, annually.

We all know how to learn thru trial and error. And we all have been thru some version of the School of Hard Knocks. And most of us have survived. But one thing we all should have learned by now is the real value of RBO to us. In dollars and common sense. And one more thing that we all should have learned by now is that we don’t have as much time or money or patience for all those mistakes, as we did when we were young and foolish. RBO has helped immensely to cut down on our mistakes, and given us many ways to improve our skills.

I would much rather pay a little more up front for RBO and it’s related operations, than turn around one day and hear that RBO was just a season in rod-building history that could soon come to an end because of finances. A service is worth its fee, and a servant is worth his keep. If we are our brothers keeper, and have feasted at his table of plenty, and drunk deeply of the wine of his knowledge, then let’s put our $$ where our mouth is and give the man his due. And leave a proud tip.

It is important to note that access to this site is without cost to the Visitor. That seems to be taken for granted here at RBO. It’s taken as a given. And who is doing most of the taking around here? - We are. But who is doing most of the giving? - Mr. Tom Kirkman.

We’ve all sung Tom’s praises. And said what a great resource all his products have been. And some have said thanks openly. But the day may come when it’s time to open our wallets as wide as our mouths and show we mean business. If this website eventually needs a dedicated server to continue to be able to handle the traffic, then that’s what it needs. Otherwise, you may soon have to sit there in front of your computer so long for your Pages to load, that you don’t even have time to get from the website the very information you came there to get in the first place. Just because the Server speed is too slow. Or RBO may need something else to keep running a tight ship. If enough people don’t do their part, then we all get more frustrated. Both Visitor & Moderator alike. If there are 100,000+ Visitors, then at least a few hundred of us should be at the ready with our finances to stoke the fire.

Who will keep the lamp in the lighthouse burning if the Keeper gets burnt out? If you’ve been doing some of the taking around here, you may need to do more of the giving. As soon as possible. Before it’s too late. Please.

Let’s see what Mr. Kirkman wants to do with and about all this. He has said in the recent Thread “Forum Load Speed” (9-11-05): “The idea of a button (on the RBO website) that allows people to send donations of their own accord is a nice idea, but it just goes against my grain. I'll forego it for the time being, but I do appreciate the idea.” Let’s all be ready to do our part once a strategy for continued success gets put forth. Otherwise, we all lose, and what we lose may never be re-gained. Remember New Orleans.

Most Sincerely, -Clifford M. Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++
[End of rally speech]
P.S. - The genesis of this whole subject can be found in the recent RBO Thread, and is worth your review: "Forum Load Speed" [Mike Barkley Sept. 8, 2005] [www.rodbuilding.org] . Thanks, -Cliff Hall+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2005 04:59AM by Cliff Hall.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: William Bartlett (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 01:51AM

Cliff,

Check out my last post on rebuilding refurbishing a Push Pole and you will see my answer to your question if Tom hasn't changed it because of the religeous implication!!

Bill in WV

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Randy Parpart (Putter) (---.propel.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 01:56AM

What's it worth to have met people that I've have never met without this forum?

What's it worth to learn about (mostly) honest, open conclusions on products I'd never have heard about any other way?

I don't know, Cliff, it's impossible to put a number on. But it's a lot in my case; just the people I've met and been able to lean on since coming on board is unreal. What this has done for my confidence level, my professionalism when dealing with customers, and my rodbuilding total product just can't be said in anything short of a small book.

Putter
Williston, ND

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: William Bartlett (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 02:12AM

Sorry Tom please don't delete this I have to answer the way I feel!!! I praise God and Tom every day when I come to this site and it's still here I agree with you cliff, I admit that I have asked a lot from the guys at this site. Some have graciously come through for me and some have admonished me for it, but that's OK. I've learned so much from this site that I never would have known and I'm thankful for it. Now this post may get deleted for the religeous overtones, but I do not mean to demean or offend anyone that's just who I am now. since I lost my wonderful wife on June 25th, I have learned that you have to take one day at atime and what it brings you because you just never know when your number is up!!

Bill in WV

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Cliff Hall (---.dialup.ufl.edu)
Date: September 12, 2005 04:00AM

Dear Mr. William Bartlett - My condolences at the loss of your wife. Best Wishes re-gaining a sense of normalcy in your life. It will take quite a bit of work and time and patience. Go easy and keep praising God. -Cliff Hall+++

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Ted Morgan (137.219.130.---)
Date: September 12, 2005 05:53AM

Priceless. It'd leave a pretty big hole in my computer time, and now I am really getting into rod building, I think without RBO I'd lose the spark. No helpful hints, fast track learning (without magazines and pictures): I'd just be another slow geezer like I used to be.

Since I started hanging around and getting help, I've been able to do stuff quicker, neater and better. I improved my handiwork (and i mean just that, as i built by HAND), plus I've built a wrapper that I feel may last me a good while. I also know how to upgrade it. All the eye candy is inspirational and just awesome.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.nyc.untd.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 07:49AM

It is Priceless !!

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Dan Hogan (---.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net)
Date: September 12, 2005 08:54AM

Ok, we are all talking. When do we act? I'm just a novice ar rod building, but I can't fathom being without
RBO.

All I need to kno is where do I send it and how much?


Dan Hogan

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Shawn Moore (85.195.119.---)
Date: September 12, 2005 08:59AM

Well if this site ever did go away I don't see where Tom would be out anything other that what is probably a headache at times. It would be the rod builders and the rod building industry that would lose the most. I think Tom has done what the rod building industry should have done all along. Without a central clearing house for information like this one I just think the whole rod building hobby would be more fractured.

I sometimes wonder about the intelligence of companies that donate to private clubs and get ZERO benefit when they could be putting their support here at a site that caters to the majority of the world's rod builders.

I can't see where this site is in any danger of disappearing but I would hate to see all the rod building information put back into the hands of those groups and clubs that want to charge you for every shred of info you can get, or charge you a fee to post a photo or participate.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: September 12, 2005 09:09AM

I appreciate the kind comments but please don't send anything. I won't accept donations nor do I have any plans to begin charging any fees here.


..................

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.nyc.untd.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 09:20AM

Not for nothing - but you know you can get more for the magazine.

It does sound like the coffee can that you got burried out under that tree, is getting near the bottom LOL



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2005 09:52AM by bill boettcher.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Billy Vivona (4.43.114.---)
Date: September 12, 2005 10:06AM

If this site wasn't here, another one would be. Before .org, Tom & Ralph posted tons and tons of info on teh old Guild board. There was Photopoint them Moment of Fame fr posting pictures, Rodcrafters & otehr local clubs.

No disrespect to anyone here, but that's probably the truth.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.nyc.untd.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 10:17AM

Sure Billy - but they will probably charge an arm and a leg for the use of it ??

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: September 12, 2005 10:39AM

What Billy says is the truth, although even then none of them had the type of traffic or features that this site has.

Still, I'm sure rod builders will somehow make do if this site should ever cease to operate. Rod building has been taking place for many years and will continue for many more years, with or without any of these sites or resources. But as I said, I don't plan any changes here for the time being. The site will just be a little slow to load at times of peak traffic.

..........

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: eric zamora (---.246.138.201.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net)
Date: September 12, 2005 11:14AM

the idea of a button linked for contributions has been running around in my head too. i surely would love to see tom's internet presence continue for years but it sounds like tom has his ideas and i congratulate him for that and will respect his ideas. after all, these services he offers came from the same fertile ground and we wil have to have faith that he knows what he is doing. i do. afterall, tom uses macs! ;-) i'm imagining this so i might be off but it may be something akin to what we do in journalism. we don't accept freebies from people we do stories on in the editorial departments. to do that once, starts the slippery slope. it not only makes it easier to cross that line the next time but we feel it affects the reader's view of what is and what has been compromised. it's just best to not start it at all. ethics is the seed there. perhaps it is here as well. we simply do not know. and i am not the kind to demand an explanation, it is not my right.

here at tom kirkman's site, it is tom kirkman's site (with some help from a few select others i imagine) and we should leave it to him/them to decide how things are run. i am not familiar with two-tier web sites. besides faster connections does that mean some visitors get better treatment than others? better access? that surely would go against what i imagine tom's vision is for rodbuiding. look to his recent comment to save your planned donations and send it on suppies. look to another long-running site and see how that operates. again, going against what i perceive is tom's vision. to do anything remotely similar would be compromising the vision.

if he should decide voluntary contributions are necessary at some point, i imagine the influx will not be as much as we are capable of, that happens often, but it would help.

i'm willing to submit to slower speeds for now. after all, my 1999 computer with a dialup modem forces me to deal with slow load speeds as it is. this web site will still remain one of my most visited.

is it possible to somehow post an outline of when traffic is heaviest to this site? we would then be able to determine when would be the best time to visit it. perhaps even breaking it down with suggestions, time zones, hours of the day.

or heck (maybe too much coffee this morning) we could suggest a breakdown in alphabetical order, say those people with last names from T-Z would find faster times between midnight and 3am PST??? (chuckling)

eric
fresno, ca.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Billy Vivona (4.43.114.---)
Date: September 12, 2005 12:37PM

Traffic is heaviest during lunchtime during the workweek, I would uess Monday mornigs are busiest as well. Probably a lot of traffic on Thursday afternoons? Weekends are pretty much dead.

that's all a guess, based on not only this site, but others I visit. I spend WAY too much time on teh stupid internet, and kind of notice a patterns on when most posts are made & etcs. For sure, if you want a photo on the page to get a ton of views, post it late Sunday night. If you want it to get no views, post it Friday afternoon.

Bill - I go on tons of sites, I pay for none. This notion of people paying for sites, to me is a myth. No doubt VERY few sites charge to go on - I honestly cannot think of ANY sites which you have to pay for. There is only one in this craft where you have to be a member of an organization to view (there may be more, I dunno), and that organization even has a free message board.

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Anonymous User (Moderator)
Date: September 12, 2005 12:42PM

I can track when traffic is heaviest (weekends are not at all dead here, but instead of 100+ posts per day, Saturday and Sunday see maybe only about 50+ with about half the usual viewing traffic. A long way from "dead" but not nearly as busy as usual).

The strange thing is that peak hours are workdays, from about 9 to 11AM and then again from about 2PM to 4:30PM. It's no secret that most people view the site from work, during their business hours.

.................

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Bob Crook (---.onspeed.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 01:43PM

This site and Rodmaker magazine has really been a help to me and I would not hesitate to pay a yearly donor fee to support it.

As far as loading speed, I have dial up and it only takes 4-5 seconds at the most for the site to open even at the peak times that Tom mentioned above. I use IE dial up with the MSN accelerator set at faster.

Bob


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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: Raymond Adams (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: September 12, 2005 10:38PM

Perrish the thought! No RBO!! No RM!! after I just this year found such a entertaining
and VALUABLE resource!! Tom could name his price!! Just the thought of this site
going down even for a short time make me want to copy and paste all the email addresses
I can find listed here just in case of a tragity!
As Tom has said, that he doesn't plan to add any additional charges or fees to RBO. I
believe it is even more important that we rod builders support this site by supporting the
SPONCORS of RBO by using them when ever possible and reffering others to them as well.
I would also add that rod builders who are in business, add their names to the list of SPONCORS.
I havn't opened my small business yet but have thought about looking into the cost of just adding
my name to the Sponcors list as my way of showing my support.

Thanks Cliff for starting this thread!!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

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Re: Survey: What's RBO, etc Worth to You?
Posted by: William Bartlett (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 12, 2005 11:13PM

Ray I consider that a very good and well thought out idea!!

Bill in WV

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