It is a shame when a thread gets deleted, especially a thread that has the potential benefit of saving users of this site an extreme headache. If a thread is detrimental to a sponsor then maybe the site shouldn’t be associated with a company that can't seam to fulfill their orders.
I do realize that it takes money to maintain a site like this but it seams a shame that the sponsors take president over the intended audience. If someone has a poor experience with a sponsor then they should be able to warn others about that problem.

Sorry for the vent, I had a bad experience and thought others should know what they would be getting into when ordering from a certain sponsor. If you feel that the sponsor should be protected above the consumer then maybe the management of this site isn't as reputable as I thought.

The sponsors do not take precident over the users. Never have, never will. But you need to get both sides of any story before you can really judge why a topic is removed or to think I'm not reputable in some way. Go ahead and take a shot at me (we'll allow that) but be aware that you do not have all the facts.

As I have said before, there have been plants that come here posing as customers in order to "put the bad word" on a competitor. There have been sponsors threatened with things like "If you don't give me a better price I will go to Rodbuilding.org and ruin you!" Who do you believe? Frankly, I don't believe the good reviews any more than I believe the bad ones. (And another reason that I prefer we stick to actual rod building topics.)

The bottom line, is that if enough customers who are truly having legitimate problems with any sponsor come to me and with the facts and I do find that a sponsor is actually guilty of cheating or defrauding anyone, they will not be a sponsor here for very long.

And by the way, to the best of my knowledge you have never filed a complaint with me about any of the sponsors here. Why not? I can't boot supposedly disreputable companies if people don't make me aware of problems (and no, back orders and that type of thing are not in the realm of defrauding or cheating - they're just poor business practices).

In the three and half years this site has been up, four companies have been removed for not fullfilling their obligations to their customers. They were removed once I had actual facts and evidence to act upon. Not because of anything posted here on the site. I can't and won't act on anything less than facts. If you have a bad experience with a sponsor, you need to let me know about it.


..............

Just a suggestion: If you want a thread to stop then lock it and give a reason or more information, this will allow people to have the information that you say I lack. Deleting cold seems shady but maybe that is just the way I see it.

It's just the way you see it. The company you just emailed me about is no longer a sponsor here.

A few months back, maybe a year now, a guy came on this site and complained that he wasn't getting his copies of RodMaker. Said the few he did get were always damaged or wet. Then he went on to say that he had ordered back issues and never gotten them. That he had called my "secretary" and she told him that they were on the way. He said that he still had not received them after many weeks.

Only trouble was that he had never been a subscriber to the magazine. Had never talked to my secretary - I don't have one, I'm the only one here and the only one who answers the phone. Nor could he produce any proof of any purchase from me. He was a plant out to "put the bad word on RodMaker Magazine." Plain and simple.

Message board posts about dealers or manufacturers should always be viewed with skepticism. Both the good and the bad ones. Again, if you have a problem with a sponsor, I'm the one that needs to know about it. No sponsor on the list to the left will be here long if they are cheating or defrauding people. All of them have their detractors - you do enough business with enough people and some won't like the way you do business. But if I find a pattern of fraudulent practices, I have no problem removing a sponsor. In fact, as mentioned above, I've done it a few times. But I can't help and I can't act if I don't know you're having a problem.

.........

Imposters? Now that makes a lot of sence! I guess I was
so impressed with this site it had not even occured to me
that a posting for good or ill of a product or vender would
not be legit !
Inlightenment, what a bummer to be reminded of what the
real world is like. However, I for one would trust many of the
users of this site that somehow even though we have never
met, it seems like I have known them for years already!

Just my thoughts,

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I suspect that most of the people who use this site, the vast majority in fact, are honest and reputable people. You can trust what they tell you. But this is also a very active and heavily trafficked site. The occasional bad apple will use the site to do their dirty work. It's a public forum and for that reason you have to learn to "expect the unexpected." It's also important not to jump to conclusions - there are usually things going on that the average user isn't aware of.

The bottom line is that if you are having legitimate problems with a sponsor - I'm the one that most needs to know about it.

Same for the sponsors - if you're having trouble with a customer who won't pay you, has used a stolen credit card, stopped payment on a check after receiving goods, defrauded you, etc., please let me know. None of the users pay to use this site so I'm limited in what I can do, but if the facts present themselves, I will ban them from further use of the site.

Now let's get back to rod building.

.................

I've known tom for years-and I have always been able to get a Straight answer, based on facts when I had a Question.The "corporate line' has never been a factor-if there was a problem with a product or vendor-even one that he was carrying in his shop at the time-i got the truth about what ever I was asking. I expect the same integrity on this board and have not been dissappointed.I used to post on another, magazine sponsored board and the level of civility alone here makes it the best of the lot.the rules are fair, clearly posted and work.I also know that if you discretely notify Tom of a problem as he asks, and there is a valid concern,he will do as he says and bar them.

The "plants" on posting boards are of course nothing new. One manufacturer of fly rods went so far as to endorse it as "low cost legit advertising". But, if a negative plant does occur, only to be countered by several reputable long time users of the board, it will generally out itself. Most people are bright enough to take any single post with a grain of salt but if 90% of all the posts are positive or negative, again by long term members of this site, you can probably make a well informed decision on the matter. Just the way I view it anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2005 11:22AM by D. Rob Grider.