I'm tinkering around with components, trying to re-invent the wheel. I'm thinking about using carbon fiber tubing for the butt grip on a rod - simple enough. But, I figure if I leave teh blank as is, and just put 3 arbors, it would be heavier than if I used 1 arbor and cut the butt of the blank by 10", and left teh tubing "hanging" off the end of the blank supported by a FC arbor.

My concern is if I lean on the unsupported butt of teh rod, do I run the risk of breaking the tubing, or something "bad" - because it is not supported at teh end?

If I cut the butt 10", I'll save over 1oz on teh rod, and I will not affect teh balance point of teh blank as I want it to blance ahead of teh reel seat anyhow. Does saving an ounce in the butt matter? Of course not, but as I said, I'm tinkering around trying to build a better mousetrap (with that new wheel I just re-invented).

PS - I'm looking to do this with "heaver": blanks, GUSA 70 Monster MAg, 711H 20-50# blanks, not lighter stuff, where I would be putting a lot less pressure and holding the rod completely differently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2005 12:22AM by Billy Vivona.

My thoughts, Billy, are that this stuff is fairly fragile. I'm sure if I squeezed the tube I have with my hand, it'd split. I guess the thought of doing that would scare me a bit; maybe not on my own rod, but surely on a customer's??

My plans for this handle are to use graphite arbors underneath between it and the blank leaving less than 1 1/2" between arbors.

I have already lathed the 2 graphite arbors and then cut them in half. The 4 I'll use under this 6" long tube each measure less than 1/2" in length. I don't know how much would be gained vs. the possible loss?

Putter
Williston, ND

I have been using the carbon fiber tubing some for casting and spinning handles. I just did a 10 rear grip handle, I used 3 graphite arbors leaving around 3-1/2 between them. I like having this space between the arbors, makes for a sound chamber and it really amplifies any bite you get up through the handle. I also only use 3 arbors for a Tenn. handle up to 14" long. From what I have seen of carbon fiber tubing, I doubt very much it would crush at all and I have used some on my rods alot in tournaments without any problems. I would not leave the handle left unsupported that length though. 3 graphite arbors and the tubing to me does not add up to that much weight at all and not supporting the tubing at the end would not work at all in my opinion. To me you wouldn't break the tubing itself, but the tubing would break loose of the rod.

Mike

Personally I would be wary of not bonding the surface of the entire extension, that part that overlaps with the blank itself. On that note I would leave at least a six inch overlap, then wrap the overlap area tightly with thread. A little added weight at the overlap, from epoxy or anything else, is not an issue with heavers since they are going to be tip heavy anyway and it can only help to counteract this imbalance. That plus the completed rod/reel with be heavy enough that a few extra grams of weight from the epoxy used to do the bonding is of no consequence. My concern is the tremendous torque that's applied to the butt end of the rod during the cast as the caster tucks the butt end back toward him/her as the bait/weight is being powered forward.

On heaver butt extensions I use a piece of either fiberglass or graphite extension and insert the piece until it seats in the blank. I mark this point on the extension. I then cut the extension so that I'll have six - eight inches inside the blank. I scuff the piece with sandpaper, and on the thin end of this piece, the piece that fits inside the blank, I'll use a masking tape arbor (you can use whatever you want) to keep the end centered. Using plenty of paste epoxy I insert the extension, use some of the excess to fill in the "step" where the piece meets the blank, set aside to cure for 24 hrs. I then wrap the union tightly with thread.

Some will argue that the epoxy paste does not work as a "filler" to fill the area around the masking tape arbor, but in the many years I have been doing it this way I have yet to have a reel seat's or reel seat extension's bond fail. If still a concern you can try West Systems 406 Colloidal Silica for filler to change the composition of the epoxy so that it is no longer "all epoxy". I have never bothered doing this, and have had excellent results.

The heavers I have built are being used from the beach and pier fishing for large fish.

heaver pics [members.cox.net]

heaver pics [members.cox.net]

drum pic [members.cox.net]

Lou

You have to decide if you're going to use the tubing as a grip, or as a defacto extension. If the former, then you might as well leave the blank full length and just support it with a few lightweight arbors. If the latter, then what you have there is not really a good piece for an extension (which is what it would be if you cut the blank and extend the tubing off the end). You'd need a heavier walled piece of tubing. The thin walled handle tubing isn't really suitable for this type application, unless we're talking pretty light duty stuff.

.............................

What I am using it for is the bottom of a 2-piece Ferruled Fuji seat. I'm going to mount the seat uplocking, so that nut-extender thingy will house the butt grip, the reel seat will be part of the blank. Right now I have an "extension" going inside the nut piece, and on top of that is the carbon fiber tubing, which will be the butt grip - it will look somewhat similar to the Vetre handle system (but I had this idea in January when I ordered teh 2-piece seat, Vetre system was photo'd and post in March, so I didn't copycat, lol).

The piece I extended with is a bit heavy, that's my problem and why I was "concerned" with the added weight. A 15" piece of blank weighs almost 2oz, but it is stiff and exactly what I need. I just cannot accept it being so "heavy", even in the butt of the rod.

One thing that I noticed last night which has me slightly concerned - is the butt of the rod only fits into the reel seat 3 1/2", I guess when I fish the rod I'll find out if it's enough, huh? lol.

The reason I need a 2-piece rod, is that traveling with an 8' rod tube is a MAJOR hassle, and I cannot rely on the airlines to have my rods when I get to my destination. Having the rod under 84", allows me to ship it cheaply a few weeks in advance - still risky, but at least if it gets lost there is insurance on it, and I know before my trip I need to take the Bazooka tube with backup rods.

Mike,
If you believe that the cavities that you are creating with the arbors actually amplify vibrations here is something that you might want to consider. A cavity like you are creating will only resonate over a narrow band of frequencies or vibrations. But you can extend or increase the range of frequencies by varying the size of the cavities. Each size will cover a different range of frequencies or have a different range of frequencies or vibrations at which it will resonate. In other words if you put the arbors on the blank at different distances apart you will extend the range of frequencies.
Before you go to that trouble though you might want to consider the following:
1. A fish biting will cause vibrations that are well below the resonant frequency range of the cavities that you are making. A cavity that has the frequency range of a fish biting would be much, much larger than the cavities that you are creating.
Or to put this a different way, when a fish bites you do not hear it, you feel it. The reason that you do not hear it is that the vibration is much lower in frequency that the audio range of frequencies or the frequency range of your ears.
2. These cavities may very well reduce the amount of attenuation over a range of frequencies but they do not amplify. For there to be amplification there must be a non-linear device in the system. For example, an audio amplifier that does amplify has transistors in it which are the non-linear devices that do the actual amplification.

Please do not think that I am jumping on you personally. I have seen the same explaination that you used being used by others a number of times including by a couple of manufacturers of rods and the graphite tubes and it is just plain advertising @#$%&. The graphite tube used as a handle may be better in terms of sensitivity or feel than cork, I do not think that anyone has really tested this. But if it does increase sensitivity or feel it does not do it because of the cavities that are created and certainly not because it is amplifying. It does it because the graphite tube does not attenuate or damp out the vibrations as much as cork does.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2005 12:44PM by Emory Harry.

I hope the rod works great for you, Billy.


Putter
Williston, ND

Randy - it definately will, and if not - I won't tell anyone, and I'll just build myself another one, lol.

I don't know why we bother wasting our time building more sensitive rods, making all sorts of claims that this is better & more sensitive, and etc. I'm quitting rodbuilding for a little while, and am going into the micro-videocamera field, followed by the video installation vehicle business. Once I 've mastered those fields, I'll completely revolutionize the fishing industry because I'll be able to make the smallest videocamera imaginable, attach it to teh special Quadpolymer fishing line I will make, which will have teeny wires which run up through teh line, connecting to teh video camera (the camera will pass throuhg size 6 guides, so don't worry).

Next, I will attach a space age electrical current transducer under the reel seat. This will be able to receive an electrical stimuli from teh line with wires, and transport the image of teh fish biting to a reciever - even though it's not connected to teh wires, gotta love magnets. Right in teh center of teh butt grip, I'm going to put a TV screen, this waythere is no wuestion as to what's going on down below. No need for a sensitive rod, since you'll be able to see everything before you feel it.

Oh wait, Wylie Wiggins already did something along these lines, lol. My bad

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2005 12:51PM by Emory Harry.

Billy, You are smelling to many glue fumes. Jesse

Billy, You are smelling to many glue fumes. Jesse

Jesse - can you blame me? In the time it takes me to do 1 rod, you do 100. Something has to tell my brain that's a good idea. lol.

Yeah, Jesse, but they're GOOD glue fumes :)

Putter
Williston, ND