woah nelly! ! !

After recieving my latest edition of RodMaker and quickly jumping into reading it, I found my world of knowledge (as limited as it may be) about rod spines turned upside down. I read the first section in the Q&A portion of the magazine and was baffled by the answer, particularly one statement: "...the spine does not determine whether or not the blank will twist under load. Guide position alone determines that."

I am a novice in this field, so please allow me to pose a question or two so I can sit back and be educated...

Isn't the point of putting a load on the raw blank to find the correct alignment of the blank so that the guides can be placed on the proper axis to prevent the blank from spinning/twisting during a fight?

If you do have a twist to a blank (specifically the tip portion) how do you fashion the guides to prevent the twist? I thought the idea was to find a happy medium between the "spine" and the twist, so that the rod performed well.

I have an old factory built rod that I like for heaving large plugs for tarpon. It has a twist in the tip section (only visible during a fight). Is there a way I can re-arrange the guides to counter act the twist?

I hope that I haven't completely taken this statement out of context and typed this post for naught. I will thank everyone that responds for the enlightenment, thanks everyone....
nick

You put the guides on the bottom as in the spiral wrap, thus you could have the guides 180 degrees from the spine but the guides on the bottom keeps it from twisting.

Positioning the spine in an effort to prevent rod twist when fighting a fish is something that cannot effectively be done. Many proponents of positioning the spine on the top of the rod in order to prevent such twist are misleading themselves - all rods with the guides on top will try to twist or torque under load (this is exacerbated even further with high framed guides). Rods with the guides on the bottom will not twist or torgue - regardless of where you position the spine. What happens when you pressure a rod in your spine finder is not what happens when the rod is pressured by a load on the line running through the guides. The line always seeks the lowest point.

Some people have said that if you locate the guides on the bottom of the rod but don't put the spine on top, while the rod doesn't twist, it at least "tries" to and thus internal forces are set up that will destroy the rod. But it's just not true. "Trying" to twist or working against the spine does not harm a rod in any way, but actual twisting can and often does harm one. You can bend a rod in any position you want, over and over and over again and no damage will be done. Seriously twist one, however, and you can bust it fairly easily. Prevent the rod from twisting and you possibly extend its lifespan. Again, guides belong on the bottom of the rod.

I have been pushing this information for 20 years and finally it is becoming standard knowledge. (I am sure others also knew of its accuracy as well and determined it to be so by their own observations and testing.)

On the FAQs page of this site, is some info concerning the most popular locations for spine position and what you can expect from each. For most of us, the spine is positioned so that the rod will track well on the cast. Stability under load is attained by having the guides on the bottom of the rod and this includes casting rods, hence the spiral wrap.

I've often said that there is no wrong position for the spine. You must determine what particular performance characteristics you desire in your rod and position the spine accordingly, remembering all the while that rod stability is attained by guide position.

......................

Everything Tom said about spline location while fighting a fish is true. However what hasn't been addressed to the relationship between the spine location and casting accuracy. To have an accuracately casting rod the spine should be located in the plane of the cast. Doesn't matter if its in the top or bottom (0 or 180 degrees) of the rod.

If the spine is not in the plane of the cast then the rod tip can twist as the rod loads up during the start of a cast. As the rod unloads and delivers the stored energy to the lure (or line if a fly rod) the tip untwists. This untwisting can cause the rod tip to travel in an arc. When this happens you can get a rod that always casts to one side of the intended target. How big the arc is depends on the strength of the spine, its location relative to the plane of the cast and how hard the rod is cast. The bigger the arc, the larger the inaccuracy.

I have a 2-piece Shimano ultra light factory spinning rod that demonstrates this clearly. The guides are all on the tip section and are off the spine by about 15-20 degrees. Assembled normally this rod casts to the left of the intended target. However if I rotate the tip section to align the spine with the plane of the cast the rod then casts accurately.

Thank you everyone.

I think the next rod I build for myself will be a spiral wrap. This way I can truly test this whole spine/twisting thing out for myself!

Thanks for the info and the furtherment of my rod building education.

nick