I'm not going to name the sponsor here (and request that any replies also don't name names), but I do want to raise this issue: I've once again been charged shipping for an item that was backordered, after paying the full quoted shipping fee for the first shipment. In this case it was 73 cent shipping for two guides costing $3.36. Maybe it doesn't sound like much, but that's a 22% surcharge. My beef is threefold: (1) The fact that this will be done is not stated anywhere in the retailer's online or print catalogs. (2) There was no option to decline items that will be backordered (some non-rodbuilding retailers offer this option, or simply don't charge extra shipping). (3) Most annoying, I have emailed the retailer about this in the past, but have never received a reply.

So, my question: Is this standard practice? Or not? I can simply go elsewhere, but I'm not sure what the standard practice is.

Most dealers now charge for shipping of back ordered items. A few may not, but since this has become an issue for you then it would probably be wise to ask them upfront about their policy on back-ordered item/s shipping charges before placing an order.

...........................

A way to avoid backorders is to phone in your order. I know that it's easier to point and click, and the retailers must also like on line orders. But if you phone in your order, item by item, asking with each item if it is in stock, at the end of your order you will know what they have in stock for immediate shipment. Decline any items not in stock. And if they don't stock enough items to satisfy your order completely, and that bothers you, shop somewhere else.

Ordering on line is a gamble if the site doesn't allow you to cancel out of stock items.

Jeff

This seems to be a common practice - it was not the case 5 years ago when I started building, but now is. I MAKE SURE that on every order I specify NOT to ship until the order is complete. If I get 1 incomplete package, I call ASAP and remind them I have no use for a package of grips & guides if teh blank is not here yet - and that I specifically asked not to ship until everything is here.

My last order, from Angler's Workshop included 2 special orders, a Pac Bay reel seat & a Calstar 7465M blank. I recieved the compoinents last Friday, I called yesterday & the additional shipping charge for my blank (slated to be received tomorrow) was removed. $16 for a blank, $15 for components - not cool at all, but that is life. It would have been $31 shipping on a $300 order - no blame to on anyone except teh carriers, who rip you off every chance they get.

It has happened to me twice and wont happen again..................Its dead wrong for a supplier to charge shipping twice imho!!! From now on I make sure they know not to backorder anything!!!!!!

2 guides for a total of $3.+- and then tack on shipping charges of $4.95??? Put the the guides in an envelope and put a stamp on it and insure it for $10 and it will cost less than $1 to ship!!!!!!! but no they cant be bothered!!! Thats why I only use one supplier now and they have saved me 100% shipping charges a few times by telling me that they will be in my area and would be happy to meet me with my items!!! Thats service!!!

Another thing guys!! You should all look into using FedX to ship your rods and blanks!! Much cheaper than USPS or UPS!! Cost me $18 to ship a 90" tube insured for $350 to WI..........................Would have cost me over $30 anywhere else! And it arrived without an issue!! Unlike the others!!!

Russ - you just jinxed yourself, you reaize that dont you? FedEx has broken stuff as well, they all do. Unfortunately, now that you posted that, you're gonna find out the hard way. Just make sure they dont' break no GUSA's. lol.

I have had some call me when using the internet to order

But the best IMHO way to make sure is to CALL THEM

To many suppliers out there. If one don't do you justice -- go some where else You could just post here and ask who is good ??? FedEx and USPS have been good to me now I did it, the next one going south

I'm not going to take up for dealers who stock so thinly that back-orders are the norm rather than the exception, nor do I think it's right to charge additional shipping when an item that a dealer does not list as special-order is back-ordered and is shipped later. However....

Any dealer that puts a couple guides in an envelope, sends them out to you and charges less than about $10 for shipping and handling, has lost money. Many companies in other venues than rod building, have minimum order requirements or charges for orders that don't meet the minimum for precisely this reason. With the margins on rod building blanks and components getting smaller and smaller every month, some dealers can no longer afford to absorb the cost of the labor and materials involved in shipping items out of their gross on the items you just bought. That's why you get charged more than just the actual shipping or mailing fee, which is really the least of the costs associated with shipping. Somebody has to pick your order, put it in a box (boxes aren't free), pack it, seal it, label it. Somebody has to pay this guy and pay for the materials he's just used to pack your order. When you order a couple guides or a seat or something that only comes to about $4 to $10 dollars, the dealer hasn't made enough profit to even pay the guy who puts it in the box for you.

I sell back issues of RodMaker for $6.95. When a customer gets a copy he sees the $1.54 postage stamp on the envelop and probably assumes that this was my cost to ship the issue to him. He's badly mistaken. He's overlooked the cost of the envelope, the cost for someone (me) to pick the issue, seal it and apply the label. In the event that I have to hand carry it to the Post Office (this is required on parcels I mail that weigh more than 1 pound or on any overseas parcel that requires a customs form be filled out). My time goes out at roughly $400 per hour, so even if I carry a dozen or more parcels to the Post Office at one time, and spend an hour traveling to, standing in line, and getting back, I usually come out way behind on those. I certainly never make any money on single issue orders, although I'm sure some guys think I'm making a killing (I know they do - many have called to tell me how much I made on them).

I know everbody gets in a pinch now and then and you just have to have one or two of this or that. But it's folly to just order a few guides or a spool of thread or one reel seat. If you know you'll be building more rods, try to add some other items to your order - stuff that every rod builder uses at some point. A finish kit, more thread, some extra tip-tops, just something to allow you to break the shipping charge down on more than just a very few items.

Again, I'm not taking up for some dealer policies, but there is one heck of a lot more to a dealer's shipping costs than just the postage or shipping fee on the box you receive. It's worth the time to consider that there are two sides to this coin.

Tom,
I am not going to get into a @#$%& contest over this but anyone who charges $10 to ship an envelope is

a............................... "LEECH"

and must have far more overhead than they need!

Kind of like the builders I know that charge $100-$150 more than I do for nothing more than a hand crafted rod which is no better than a factory rod..............no spining.........same guide layout etc on all of them............
or going to the local tackle shop that has some rod building stock and charges $5 for a guide that retails for $1.29 everywhere else...............

This is the problem with this world! Its all about GREED.................................

I can live with the profit I make on my rods and I get a thank you because the customer isnt walking funny after they pay..........................


Billy, Yeah your probably right but at least it wont take 2-3 months to get the insurance claim taken care of!


Enough Said......................

BTW,

I wasn't trying to be insensitive to all suppliers that support this board. One that I deal with phoned me as soon as they realized that they were short on an item from my order. Their call gave me the opportunity to drop that particular item and order it next time. I really appreciated that and will continue doing business with them.

Jeff

If you order a couple items..you should expect to pay a handling fee...

but,I've had it happen where I have them on the phone..they SAY it is in stock..then when I got the package...1-2 items were back ordered.....THEN THEY SHOULD SHIP FREE..but they don't ......................

$400 / HOUR ????????????????????? that's better than union scale !

$400 per hour - I bet that wasn't included in the Pricing survey, lol. If you did that Baby Dragon weave, it would've cost $36,000, now that's a fishing rod!!!

If I can't turn $400 per hour, there is no way I can make enough to pay the printing and mailing fee for RodMaker. It's not profit, neither is a $10 shipping fee. Sometimes I wonder if the readers have any idea what it costs to print one issue of RodMaker. I also wonder if they have any idea what it costs companies to pay wages, matching taxes, worker's comp fees, insurance, social security taxes, etc. Most of the cost related to mailing and shipping is in labor, not the cost of postage.

No dealer is getting rich off shipping or mailing charges. And, everybody charges about the same thing for their mailing and shipping services. You're going to pay for it somewhere, either in the price of the product, or as a separate add on in a shipping and handling fee.

Russ, You're entitled to your opinion, but we don't use that type of response on this site. Please tone it down a bit. Thanks.

..........

I do not like high shipping charges anymore than the next guy. But as a business operator I understand all the hidden costs and fees involved. Most consumers never stop to think about the general cost of doing business. Most of these dealers have to pay rent, utilities, insurance, and most of all, labor and all the matching fees, insurance and taxes that go along with that. For each employee that we hire at around $14 per hour, the cost to our business is $26 per hour. If I had someone like that packing orders there is no way I could get by with a $10 shipping fee on a small order and stay in business unless my gross on the product I was selling was high enough to cover it. From what I am hearing these days, there is very little profit in rod building supplies. Shipping and handling has to cover more than just postage or a FedEx fee.

But I think the answer is for dealers to state on their websites and in their catalogs exactly what their back order and shipping policies and charges are. No one can complain if they know what to expect beforehand. I think the main complaint here is the surprise that comes when you are hit with a charge that you were not told about and did not expect.

sorry for the edited word but it just gets to me...........................................if thats all you were talking about............

Some suppliers(not just in this business) have less than a dozen employees and others are just family run and if they are overcharging on shipping it is PROFIT.......................

No one sells anything without making a profit these days so please dont say none of it is profit!!!

I'm not disagreeing with Tom Doyle on his dismay - I think that if you paid for the shipping in full on the initial order, and did not receive credit for the portion that was back-ordered, you should not have to pay for shipping all over again when the back-ordered item arrives. That's a double hit and any dealer who is doing that needs to review their policy in that area.

My point was only to mention that the fees themselves need to be viewed from both sides of the coin. Postage and shipping fees are the smallest part of shipping and handling.

And you reminded me of something I tend to forget until I get the bill each October - the Publishers Liability insurance for RodMaker runs about $10,000 per year. Another one of the hidden costs of doing business that the consumer rarely considers. Maybe I need to raise my mailing fees. (Just joking.)

..........

Russ,

What I'm saying is that not all of it is profit. In fact, most of it is not. The dealer isn't taking that shipping fee and going on vacation with it - he's using the bulk of it to pay his employee and the various taxes and fees associated with having an employee, or for the packaging materials, etc.

When you buy a $5 reel seat and get hit with a $5 or $10 fee stop and think about what it cost the dealer to fill your order. On a $5 item he just made a gross profit of about a buck or maybe a buck and half. Out of that dollar or two he has to pay not only the actual postage, but pay for a box/container, have someone pick the order, pack it, label it and have it ready to ship. Some dealers even hand carry these things to the Post Office or UPS or FedEx instead of having a location pick-up. Even if they did charge a $10 shipping and handling fee, they've not made any money on that order. This is why I suggest you order a handful of items rather than just the one or two or few. It's less costly on you and on the dealer.

..............

What guys really need to do when they need 1 or 2 small items, is network. I ship stuff to peopel for $4 all the time, i'm not in business though. I haevf other people ship stuff to me as well. When you need ones & twos it's better to ask friends than to place an order with a dealer. imo.

There is an easy fix: Simply have a check box indicating, "Do you wish only a full order be shipped?" By checking the box, you are agreeing to wait for the entire order to be filled prior to shipping. That is fine with me. I hate paying the extra shipping!

JC