Knowing that a Spey rod in the shorter 12' - 13' range is still going to get close to a total of 8oz or so, I would assume it would be a bit more ideal to have a rod an ounce or two heavier that balances perfectly when the line is drifting with the current than to have a much lighter rod that you're constantly fighting to keep the tip up or down?

Because of the length involved, it's going to be hard to balance a spey rod without adding a considerable amount of weight. And, at some point, additional overall weight is going to be just as bad as tip heavy or otherwise out of balance rod.

This is why the most important thing you can do, is build for lightness. A light rod that is out of balance is still much, much better than a heavier rod that is out of balance.

Now if you can add a single ounce and get the rod to balance perfectly, then that might be the best route to take. But if you have to increase overall weight by say, 25% or more, then I'd have to back up and really consider what I'm doing.

You probably already know this but I'll repeat it - to get the most effect for the least amount of weight, whatever weight you add needs to be added at the extreme butt end of the rod.

............

where do you want the balance point to be?

Throw a big ol' Scientific Anglers System 2 12/13 reel and 400yds of backing on there and you won't need to worry about a tip-heavy rod at all. Plus, you can tell your friends about how you sometimes get into salmon so big that you need all that backing.

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

Bill Coen ask's the criticle question here:

Where do you want the balance to be on the two handed rod:

Generally speaking <> Rule of thumb:

You want the rod to perfectly balance when held on the index finger within 1" to 2.5" inches from the top of the upper grip.

This with the reel <> line loaded, and the line extended beyond the rod tip so it's just draping the grass.

...But this is just a very basic rule of thumb for casting balance, and it really does not take "fishing" into consideration.

In the real on-the-water world of swing seam fishing with the two handed rod, casting is really only a very small portion of the day spent on the water.

"In the swing" is where the angler will spend most of his/her time.....This is the basic and ultimate beauty of presenting a fly with the two handed rod.

With the two handed rod, and proper fly presentation: The fly is in the bucket far longer then it is in the air.

To acheive this proper swing balance ...You will want the rod to balance just in the same location (1' to 2.5") in the same fashion (with two to three fingers) as mentioned above.

<> But with the full working length of the line in the seam, and the rod arm easily held relaxed and fully extented at your side.

If properly balanced, the rod can be easily held with two or three fingers of the rod hand, within only a few inches from the top of the upper grip.

This done throughout the entire length of a properly mended swing.

....And the take/hook set can be nearly always successful by simply giving the rod tip to the bite.

This lazy fishing, but it is also smart fishing.

In the swing is where the improperly balanced tip or butt heavy rod will start to burden the angler.

If the rod is tip heavy, the angler will constantly be musceling the rod tip up out of the water on the swing with a cocked arm, and after a few short hours cramped muscles will ruin the day.

If the rod is butt heavy the tip will extend to far above the water line and the swing will be lost...The angler will constantly be forcing the rod tip to the water line with the forearm and wrist, and again cramped muscles will cut your day on the water short.

Once either of these happens, the normal joy and ease of fly presentation with the two handed rod is over.

Proper balance of the two handed rod for both casting and actual fishing is generally acheived five ways:

1. First and formost: Choose the right length, and line weight rod to best meet your river conditions and targeted gamefish.

There is abosolutely no reason to bruden yourself with excess graphite if it is not needed....Regardless of how well balanced the rod is.

2.Correct length of the upper grip. This is best determined / formulated by the overall length of the rod.

3. Correct profile of the upper grip so that the angler can utilize the entire length of the upper grip to best acheive proper rod balance throughout all of the various delivery techniques.

4. Correct length and profile of the lower grip so that if needed: The angler can acheive a maximum or minimum hand spread to aide in rod balance with various deliveries.

5. Utilizing an up-locking or down-locking configuration of the reel seat to counter either the tip or butt.

If a good working rod balance cannot be acheived with properly aligning these five issues, then the rod blank is simply poorly designed, and should be avoided.

A Note:

Up sizing the reel weight or adding additional weight to the butt of the rod to counter the tip can be somewhat effective.

But the bottom line is if you do this: You are adding additional weight to the rod, and you still must deal with it over an entire day on the water.

Bob Meiser

Actually Tom answered the question I asked but adding even just an ounce of lead to balance it seems to be defeating the purpose of being lightweight. But adding an extra heavy reel and lots of line really seems to go in the wrong direction. ( I thought I had indicated how I wanted the rod to balance with "that balances perfectly when the line is drifting with the current ". It's simple to just move your hand up and down the grip until you find the balance point and balance probably doesn't mean a lot when you have two hands on the rod casting it but by building the rod yourself would allow you to position the components correctly.

It just seems to me that a Sage 8126-3 with a stated weight of 7 9/16 ozs that balanced perfectly when "when the line is drifting with the current' would be a lot more comfortable all day long than a 6 1/2 oz rod that was either tip or butt heavy and exerted constant pressure on your wrist. I'll just built the upper sections as light as I can first and position the components on the butt end last to balance it. Thanks.

Bob,
I think that there is a heck of a lot of wisdom and obviously years of experience reflected in your post above.
However, I will argue that there is a sixth variable that should be added to your list and that is the weight of the guides and guide wraps. The weight of the guides and guide wraps can be a significant additional variable on any rod but particularly on something like a sprey rod where the guides will tend to be larger, there will tend to be more guides and their distance from the fulcrum (end of grip) will tend to be farther because the sprey rods will tend to be longer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2005 11:44AM by Emory Harry.

Hi Emory,

Indeed this is 100% correct, and should automaticaly be a point of consideration when building any rod.

Thanks for adding number 6...};^)...!!!

I did very much enjoy your article in RodMaker.

Guide/epoxy weight, and keeping guide numbers all to a functional minimum all play a big part in a well balanced rod.

Bob Meiser

P.S.

Bill I have received your messages in regards to guide choice for your two hander, but your server does not like me.

Call me if you wish....541-770-9522

Bob Meiser