Hello all, in planning a rod project specifically for use as a boat rod targeting large catfish on Virginia's James river, I have been following the simple spiral posts with interest. Without having the benefit of the rodmaker article I wanted to learn as much as possible about the technique before ordering my components and starting the rod.

I ended up going with a mudhole 7' MH special e-glass 15-25lb blank (SPSWB7M), BMNAG Alcanites (20,16,12,10,10,10,10 & 10 tip) spaced at 4,8,12 3/8, 17,23,30 3/4 and 42. The reel seat is placed at 17". The biggest concern I noticed in the majority of the forum posts was what kind of bumper guide to use. Based on the recommendation to go with the smallest, lowest guide one can get away with, I decided to try a #6 alconite fly guide. It's low and small, seemed just right to me.

Using static guide placement I set up the guides (to arrive at the above spacing) with all guides on top, and then just placed all but the butt guide on the bottom of the rod. To further help get the line away from the blank, I placed the butt guide off-center approx 20 degrees (by eye, no measurements here.) I am planning to use a CT framed reel so line stacking is of no concern at all - even though some have suggested that it doesn't make a noticeable difference with a levelwind reel anyway. I also offset the number 6 guide (size 16 guide) by about 20 degrees, then all of the remaining guides are directly under the blank.

After wrapping the guides in place, I started to work out the placement of the "bumper guide" (#6 fly guide) by putting a reel on the rod and applying a load to determine where the line would touch the rod. You know what - it didn't! No contact! Granted, I could MAKE the line hit the rod by rotating the rod a little bit counterclockwise (spiral is to the right), but it's certainly not significant and not enough to warrant, IMO, the use of a bumper guide. At most I may just apply rod finish to the blank in the area that the line "may" hit the rod and be done with it. It will certainly pass a shock leader better!!

What's the moral of the story? The bumper guide is truly an optional component with the simple spiral technique, just as some of the experts have already stated.

I hope this post helps some that are on the fence concerning bumper guides.

/Scott

By offsetting your butt or stripper guide you have most likely eliminated the need for a bumper guide for your purposes. I would certainly try it that way and if further experience shows that a bumper guide would be an improvement you could easily add one. Had you chosen to center your stripper guide then a bumper guide would probably been helpful to reduce rod and line wear.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2005 12:37PM by Stan Grace.

Yes that's basically what my intention was in offsetting those guides. I wasn't expecting it to eliminate contact , a pleasant surprise, but certainly like the fact that I most likely will not need a bumper guide. Less is more sometimes. Time will tell.

The importance of having the reel on hand is also emphasized. If a levelwind conventional reel was being used, instead of a non-levelwind version, I probably would have been more comfortable centering the guide more on the blank, necessitating the use of a bumper.

Thanks,
/Scott

"Without having the benefit of the rodmaker article I wanted to learn as much as possible about the technique before ordering my components and starting the rod. "

As far as the Simple Spiral goes, offsetting the butt guide is not recommended nor required in order to use the Simple Spiral - Bumper Wrap system. Sure you can do it, but it may or may not work as well as the method in the article outlined. The system you have outlined, is something a bit different, and is actually a method outlined in the Volume 6 #5 issue where the first and second guides are offset enough to clear the blank on one side. Nothing at all wrong with that - I've used it over the years on heavy duty rods (Larry Tysinger has been building some this way lately and likes them a lot). In fact, it's been around on offshore and stand up rods for many years now. So at least you can be sure that it will work.

What I'd suggest is trying what you have now and then set up an actual Simple Spiral -Bumper System and compare. Personally, I prefer the Bumper system after using it for a couple years and as I said, I've done many the other way as well. It will come down to personal preference in the end, but I think you may end up liking the Simple Spiral Bumper System better. By not having that first guide offset, you greatly reduce the chance of it shifting or moving over time. Although, many systems use an offset butt guide and they don't have any problems.

..........

You know I've considered just ordering back issues that I don't have and just fill out the collection. Maybe I ought to consider it more seriously.

I know that there are several spiral variants out there, each with their own appication but didn't realize there was another version that was such a slight difference from the simple spiral. Most I have thought incorporated more guides to make the transition.

Now to get the rod finished and put it to work! I've got another blank sitting here, maybe it'll get a straight up simple spiral and I can make a head to head comparison.

Thanks Tom for the mag & forum!!

/Scott

They'll both work nicely, you just have to decide if you really want that offset butt guide. I offset some of the big Fuji RSG guides on some 50lb rods and the two rear straddle feet kept them from twisting. But I just never really liked having that butt guide pushed off to one side. Thus, the Simple Spiral.

But again, what you have will work. Try them both and come back with your thoughts.

.......................

What I have found with using the simple bumber-guide method is that I don't need to have the customer's reel like I do if I'm wrapping one of the other spiral systems. With the other systems, although they worked well, it was pretty important to set them up with the line path coming from the reel that was going to be used on the rod. Or at least one very similar. Using the bumber guide system, it doesn't seem to matter much which reel is put on the rod. That makes things a lot simpler for me.

Jeff Hunter

Try putting on any reel, put on a top, then just run the line though the top add weight and let the line tell you where to put guides, keeping the line as streight as possible. Wa La, call it what you will

I've also just offset the butt and 2nd guide and had good results. Seems to work OK. But after reading about the simple spiral bumper thing, I've done my last 4 stand up rods like that and I really do prefer it. It looks better than having those guides offset and I think it might hold up better in the long run. The reason to offset the butt and 2nd guides is to get the line to clear the blank, so you might as well leave them in place and just use a bumper to do the same job. I really like this new system and plan to use it on all my spiral wrap projects from here on out.

I had a friend bring over a broken 2 piece great lakes trolling rod. It was broken at the ferrule. I told him I could fix it and asked if he would be interested in the spiral setup. He had mentioned the women on the last trip had trouble with the rods turning in their hands when landing a fish..............then it dawned on me, why not just turn the tip section with the guides down, and you've got the spiral wrap, without the bumper guide(which may not be needed with a trolling rod). He said he would try it and get back to me. Gene

Just make sure the line does not touch the blank any where.