I know this has been beaten to death, especially by me. Sorry to give the poor horsey one more final kick while's it's been put down.

I just did a quickie test to see how certain epoxies that I've been using and recommending to other people to use - hold up in sunlight. I took a rod down to Florida, it basically sat in the sunlight for 2 consecutive days. I get home, and notice the decal area which was covered in one epoxy directly on teh blank (not thread), well the gloos charcoal of teh blank was noticeably discolored from teh rest of teh blank. Upon closer inspection, so was teh butt wrap. Teh guides, well they looked just fine - I used a different epoxy.

So this past weekend I wrapped a test stick with White NCP, I did not paint teh blank underneath so it's not vibrant white, my bad. I applied 2 different epoxies in 4 sections. 1 section was Brand A, another Brand B, the other 2 was a thick coat of brand A, with a thin coat of Brand B over, and the last section was a thin coat of Brand ! with a thick coat of Brand B over that.

I put this out into teh sunlight on Monday morning, July 25th. In 3 days, everywhere I used brand B is turning brown. What made me laugh, is there is a fisheye in one spot where Brand B went over Brand A, and that fisheye is perfect, whicl everywhere around it is awful.

My question is - has anyone else done any testing like this, and would like to share results with me? I know there is a test stick up in Massachusettes where we did the same thing, but I don't know if it's been in the sun lately.

I've done many such tests over the years. What I found was a double edged sword - the epoxies that turned brown or badly yellowed, protected the threads from fading. Those that stayed relatively clear, allowed sunlight to penetrate easily and fade the thread.


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I dont' know which is worse though. In any event, 3 days of sunlight for the epoxy to turn noticeably yellow, isn't a good sign. I wonder what some of teh rods I built for other people look like now that they've been fished for over a year.

I do have another color stick which saw a month of sunlight in the Winter, which has been out in the sun for 2 weeks. I'm testing that one to see just how much the Neonz Madeira threads fade with certain CP's & Aftcote over.

Try this - apply epoxy and then put the sample sticks in a dark closet. Some will still turn brown - it just takes a few weeks instead of a few days.

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Uh, I sort of already do this with most of my own rods, since I never go fishing, lol. On teh stick I have in the sun, I put a strip of aluminum foil on teh bottom half of teh stick, so no light gets there. I also left a section of thread bare, and put aluminum foil over that. THat should give me the same or close enough to teh same results a putting it into the closet. An added bonus is I don't have to move my wife's shoes around to find space for a 12" piece of fishing rod in my closet. I swer one day she's going to open it and everythign she sticks in there is going to erupt out all over the floor. Then I'll have to help pick it all up, lol.

Billy, I've been making the encapsulated grips/hozels using Flexcoat since the early 90's. The Flexcoat is 1/4" thick in most places and takes on an amber tint to a certain extent but does not keep getting darker with age .I had a rod in a couple of weeks ago built in 95' for a couple of new guides and the encapsulated Rockfish looked no darker than say one a year old that had been out in the sun quite a bit. I just be up front and tell the customer that the finish will take on an amber tint over time.That is one reason most of my rods are Black over metallic Gold, the gold just gets to be a deeper shade of gold over time.Jesse

As a long time flex coat user, I've resigned myself to the fact that it turns more brown than most. But it's easy to use and I get good results with it. The only colors that I have ever had trouble with fading were the lighter pastel colors. The pale blues, yellows and reds. So I just limit their use to trim wraps and don't make any main guide wraps with them. It's a shame I guess but I just tend to work around those colors that won't hold up well after exposure to the sun.

I read alot about finishes and trying to find one that protects the thread from UV. I think we're barking up the wrong tree. If we want our threads to retain their color out in the sun, we need to be talking to the thread manufacturers, not the epoxy people. We need more colorfast thread that is more resistent to UV fade.

For the record, I still have never used Flex Coat, but I have seen lots of rods with it. Brand B has Ambered much quicker and more than any other FC rod I've seen in that short a time span.

The manufacturers of the epoxy resins used by boat builders recommend a finish coat of paint or varnish to protect the epoxy from damage by exposure to UV rays. You might want to try a coat or two of clear varnish as a finish for the epoxy.

The varnish will yellow or turn brown as well. When it turns brown, it will then block some of the UV rays which over time will degrade the epoxy. Paint will certainly block most of the UV, as it will be opaque. You could certainly paint your epoxy, but then your threads won't show through. But we're not really having problems with epoxy degradation - it will outlive most of us.

The question has always been, how do you get a nice, water-white clear coating over your guide wraps, and, not have your threads fade. So far, nobody has the magic bullet. We have water-white clear coatings (Permagloss for one) but UV zips through it and fades the thread more quickly than if we had used a coating that turns somewhat dark. So thread stays colorfast longer, under brown epoxy. But most builders don't want brown epoxy (although it's not very noticeable on dark threads and blanks).

Ken probably hit the nail on the head - the craft needs UV light stable thread. Then you could put any clear coating on the wraps and not have to worry about fade out.

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I have 80-130lb rod that was built by a custom shop about 30 years ago. It looks well used and kind of beat up but the the thread has not fadded and the epoxy or varnish dont know what they used on it, it just slight yellow, its very hard to tell. 2 of the guides are not in line but they are still strong. I would like to know how they made this rod, It has seen alot of use and held up well.

Billy, the "Test Stick" here in MA hasn't seen sun in a while, and will say brand B is getting a bit more yellow than the standard ambering of the flex coat, even without the sun.

The 15oz of mixed Aftcote in the measuring cup HAS been in the sun since 2/6/05 though............ talk about a magic trick, I thought it would be brown by now.

I have some rods done on white blanks, with plenty of brilliantly colored threads, that are still nearly water-white clear with no thread fading. Diamond II from Bullard was the product used on it. To this day it remains the best finish I've ever used all around. I've had others tell me it was "so and so" but when trying those the differences in every respect were quite apparent.


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"Diamond II by Bullard".....with the keyword "was", I'm assuming it no longer exists.

Out of curiosity....was it a two part finish? Did the hardener darken like all the others do.

It was great stuff! I think it might have even predated Flex Coat. Yeah, two part and I don\'t recall it yellowing much if at all. They had some great CP too. What was it called? Sort of cloudy clear and super thin. Really penetrated. And what about those snaggle bass butt caps!!!

Yes, it was a 2 part epoxy. Because Gene decided to make it an exclusive product, and Roger over at Flex Coat decided to distribute his to other dealers, the die was cast for which would become the standard bearer of epoxies.

But, Diamond II was a super finish. It ambered just a bit in the bottle, but not much. By today's standards I'm sure it would be considered obsolete in some ways, but it worked very well, had good pot life, didn't tend to yellow or crack and seemed to hold up very well.

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The color preserver was called CPX. It was also the best color preserver I've ever used. It held brilliant color retention of even the lightest threads and never caused blushing or bubbles. As thin as water.

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Gudebrod's old & retired "Hard & Fast" was another that barely ambered & held thread colors very well.Went on nice ,too. Not a hi-build finish..but not real thin ,either.

What the heck happened? Usually we progress foward with new products, not step backwards. How can the "first" products on the market, offered I dunno 30 years ago - be better than finishes coming out in the 21st century? We had a finish which was non-yellowing, clear, flexible - and now we are basically stuck with using epoxies which are all flawed in one way or another.

Wy must we always build a "better" mousetrap - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I don't know that it was "better," but it did stay nearly water-white clear and it was as easy as Flex Coat to use. Gene passed on a few years ago. Joe DeLeon would probably know what it was or where it came from. Vic Cutter as well. I don't know where either of these gentlemen are today, but I'll see if I can find out.

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