Hello All-

I have recently caught the surf bug pretty bad and am building my second round of rods for that purpose. The last two went to my brother but these two are for me. I have recently bought two blanks, both of which came highly recommended:

1 Lamiglas CSB 138 2M 11'6" 12-30 lb 3-8 oz
1 Rainshadow SU1266M 10'6' 12-25 lb 2-5 oz

I am going to be fishing from the beach out of sand spikes with cut and smaller live baits that I will be casting (as opposed to yakking them out). I love that you can catch anything in the surf at any time, but my target quarry will be sharks up to 6' or so. My intention is to build one as a casting/conventional rod and the other as a spinning rod.

I have three specific questions.

1) Which blank should be the casting/convetional vs. which one should be the spinning out of these two? (I'm leaning towards building the heavier Lami as the casting but have very little experience with this type of rod and would like some guidance.)

2) I want to build the casting rod as a spiral wrap. I have built a bunch of freshwater bass rods using the Forhan method, but am worried that the shock leader knots will catch on the offset first and fourth guides. So, that leaves the 'Bumper' method and the O'Quinn method - and any others that I am not familiar with. Any of you build many of these as spiral wraps? I'm interested in which spiral method as well as which guide sizes.

3) I am planning on purchasing a Daiwa Sealine-X SHV reel for the conventional. I really don't have a good idea of what size to buy - 20, 30, 40? I know this is a rod building board but I have to ask given all the expertise here.

Apologies for the long post and thanks very much in advance for your help. Tight lines!

Bill

Building spiral which ever you choose. I've only done 1 surf rod, and ALL my boat rods and haven't had a problem ith shockers passing through transition guides. I don't use anyone's method, I use my own - straightest line to teh tip method. lol. Seriously, all my heavier boat rod (which I do cast, albeit not as hard as a surf rod) use a size 20 stripper, the drop to a size 12. If I'm using 60# Mono leader & 65# braid, I know I can use a aize 12 trans, then the rest all size 10. If 80# Mono is going to be used, I know I need size 12 guides. Very simple.

After the article on the Simple Spiral (Bumper) I got several calls and emails from guys who had tried it on surf rods. They all reported that it worked like a charm.

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Bil,
I would suggest using the heavier rod for casting and the other for spinning. If you are using mono on the spinning reel then I suggest you go no heavier than 20# (Trilene Big Game Green is my choice.) Mono over 20# will diminish casting distance no matter what reel it is on. The added strength vs. distance loss is a net loss. I like to have as much line on the reel as I can while keeping the weight as low as I can. This means compromising between the two concerns. I'd go with a reel size that can hold at least 200 yds. of 20# mono; especially if targeting Sharks. With Braided Line you can use a smaller (lighter) reel and hold even more line but for sharks I would stay with a heavier reel for added strenth and the extra line capacity. A larger shark can strip a reel faster than seems possible.
The other factor is that sharks are tough fighters, This means the reel must be built to take abuse. The surf environment is nototrious for taking a toll on reels. I strongly urge you to invest in the best quality reels you can affford. It's not just a matter of the number of ball bearings, but the actual construction and rust resistance that will make the difference between a reel you can trust or one that will be constantly in the repair shop. Rinse and apply a light coating of WD 40 after every outing and wash down the rods. A little preventive maintenance goes a long way. If you're attached to your fingers (and plan to stay that way) I suggest investing in a Boga Grip.
Tight Lines
Dave

Although I haven't built many, ALL the rods i've built have been heavy surf rods.
go with the Lami for the conventional. Tom's right-The bumper is hte ONLY way to go!
I use heavey 50lb power pro braid (same diameter as 12 lb mono with a heavy fluro shock leader.
20, 12, 16,16, the rest 12's or something to that affect.......

I'm somewhat off subject here but I have to ask.

Do aluminum oxide guide rings hold up to braid?

Bill, definately use the Rainshadow for the spinning rod.

Smooth Wraps,


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

As far as Guides go I would not go below a 12mm and use a 12 tip and with Powerpro you do not need a shock leader. I fish with Allstar 12 Footers and use 50PP and have had no problems
ALWAYS use high quality guides with braid I use fuji hardaloy With a SIC tip

I would use the Diawa SL-X30SHV it's capacity is 490 yds of 14# if useing braid make sure you back it with s Shot of Mono 25-50YDS

Keep Us Posted I'm Interested in how you make out! I was thinking of the same Conv. set-up using a Rainshadow 1382

Hey gang-

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to proceed with the Lami as a Bumper Spiral conventional set up and the Rainshadow as a spinning rod. I will also probably go with the size 30 Sealine-X HSV casting reel based on the above advice. I will let you know how it goes (and I'll keep the Boga grip handy).

To Dave's point above regarding line size, in test casting of the spinning rod I built for my brother I learned a few things through experimentation. The biggest one is that large diameter mono cannot be choked as quickly as light line without losing some distance. My best set up was somewhere between new concept and cone of flight. The second was that you lose a material amount of distance every time you go up a line weight (as well as losing capacity). ANY guide set up with 20lb line would outcast ANY set up with 30 pound line, and the best set up for each was NOT the same. Several hours of spooling, respooling, and casting but certainly some good lessons learned. And the lessons support Dave's points exactly.

One last thing I have been thinking about. The casting reel I'll be using is a conventional non-levelwind reel. I have done very limited fishing using non-levelwind reels, but the few times I have (offshore trolling) one of the hard parts was aligning the line as I cranked it back onto the spool (that and not getting seasick with a hangover - that was the other hard part). I will be holding the foregrip with my left hand and cranking with my right, so my left thumb will be aligning the incoming line. In my experience with the trolling reels, it was easy to align the incoming line to the right side of the spool ('push' with my left thumb) but much harder to get it to align on the left side ('pull' with the thumb).

I always try to keep the line from stacking to one side with my level wind freshwater spiral set ups, but maybe I want this set up to intentionally stack line to the left for me? That way, it seems like I would be able to 'push' incoming line to the right side of the spool and when I want the incoming line to go left I could just let it go on it's own or control it's travel back to the left with the same side of my thumb I 'push' with. That way I would never have to get my thumb on the far side of the line and 'pull' it back. Thoughts? Anybody try this? Thanks!

Bill

Bill - if you align the line unevenly, it will fluff up when you cast & backlash. Spiral to teh left, and lay teh line on evenly by pushing to the right- it will come back to the left because of teh direction of the spiral - I'm not sure if this is true with teh Bumper, but with my set ups it is). You will get more distance with the non-levelwind reel, but if you are plugging it's much easier to use a levelwind. If bait fishing, non-levelwind is the way to go.

One thing that also bears mentioning, has to do with the sizing of the bumper guide when used with any set up where you're going to have shock leader knots involved. As you noticed in the article, the bumper guide size is stipulated as being very small - a low frame #8 or #10 at most. This works in nearly all situations because the bumper guide doesn't play any role whatsoever in transitioning the line to the bottom of the rod. It simply keeps the line from rubbing the blank at that point where it passes by the side of the rod. So...

On a set up with a shock leader knot, it's not likely you'll be able to get away with a #8 or #10 guide there. You'll mostly likely have to move to a #12 or even a #16, but as long as you can keep the ring low and close to the rod, this won't matter. I have taken #16's in the NSG low frame style, and further bent and shaped the guide legs to put the ring down to the point where it is almost touching the rod. This keeps the line from having to move very far outward as it passes the rod. So don't be afraid to use a larger bumper guide if your shock leader knot prescribes it. Just do whatever you can to keep the ring low and close to the rod blank.

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I have built a surf plug rod on a Rainshadow 1084 and really like it. Used the bumper guide spiral system and it works like a gem. I did use a larger ring than the article said and it's okay but the line does get moved a little out and away from the blank with the larger bumper. It never dawned on me to take the guide and reshape or bend the feet so that the ring would sit down low on the blank. Duh!!!

I may redo that one aspect of my system but overall I can highly endorse the bumper system for surf fishing. On really big heaver type rods I don't know but I'm betting it could handle that too.

I wonder what the story would be on standup rods using the crank on leaders? I have heard of once the swivel is on the reel and the fish makes that last run the swivel going back out can crack or knock out the inserts of the regular guides. I have replaced a few guides here and there but one guy had me change six rods to roller guides because of this problem.. Jesse

The bumper wrap doesn't use any actual transition guides so the bumper would be no more prone to cracking than any ceramic guide would be. The swivel would never be required to turn any corners.

In the case that ceramics aren't the ticket, you could always substitute carboloy if need be, or, just use rollers to begin with.

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