Hi All,
How does one price their workmanship? For example: adding exotic weaves like
Mr. Tanaka's or Doc Ski's? Closed multi-colored 4 axis butt wrapps etc.
I have found that if I priced according to the time put in the price would be very high
indeed! Maybe I haven't learned to be fast enough yet.
Rods that have cost me $100 to build, with modest embelishment I have been able
to get $175 - $200 when the rod sells. Sound about right?
I have no clue what to charge for things like marbleing, Flocked grips, custom turned
handles & reel seats etc?
I'm sure the generic answer to my question is: "what ever the market will bare" but
I just thought some advice from some long time builders could save me some
embarassment.

Example:

Blank & guide set = $ 120.00
Custom wood handle set = $ 50.00
7 in. double diamonds = $ ????
3 in. leaping bass weave= $ ????
3 or 4 color guide wrapps = $ ???
with inlays

I have been spoken to a couple of builders who do not embellish with thread art or other
"fancy" stuff and they get $5-$7 a guide + parts to build or repair rods.

Thanks in advance

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Ray... Stay tuned to upcoming issues of Rodmaker... Tom is working on a multi-part series on just this subject. Part one was in the last issue. He's been conducting surveys of rodbuilders across the US to compare how different builders in different parts of the country price several different specific types of rods... should be some interesting information to benchmark from.

Erik

Erik,
Now you did it ! I finally subscribed to Rodmaker almost 2 weeks ago and have been frothing with exitement
waiting for my first issue! Just when I think I'm calming down I here about an article that makes me feel like
a 10 yr. old at Christmas time!
Be still my beating heart! LOL ! LOL !

Thanks Erik & Tight Wraps!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I'm anxious to see Tom's article as well. By and large, though, I find builders drastically under-selling their work. I have no idea what you think you're "worth" based on your abilities, but figuring out your hard costs and your hours invested per rod times how much you want to earn per hour should give you a pretty good start! I think most guys end up working for minimum wage or less, which is ridiculous considering the craftsmanship involved. Another thing to consider in establishing your hourly wage/fee is it's not just the time it takes to complete the rod, but all the time invested in becoming proficient in the first place (like hanging out here!). What's that joke about the invoice reading Parts--$10, knowing which part and where to put it: $990? :) I'm hesitant to suggest a number, but I would consider $25/hr the absolute minimum for doing a custom rod, increasing as your abilities/skills increase and/or the craftsmanship involved. If you're turning your own grips and seats, etc., that number should be higher, IMO. As many wise builders have reminded us from time to time here, this isn't rocket science and we're not Michaelangelo's...but it's not flipping burgers either. If you're like me, you spend a whole lot of your waking hours working at becoming better at crafting individual masterpieces, and learning how to match the customer with the right rod--that needs to be valued, in my opinion.

My $.02! :)

A simple way is to tally up the parts- times 2. If they don't like the price send them to K-Mart.
Then just like you already said what the market will bear.
You will get a lot of people with the -I got kids and family-

I also read a post here about a builder who when a customer tried to question his price --

he would Raise It.

20 builders took part in the survey that is presented in part 2 (the new issue is printed and will be mailed next week). You're going to find a lot of difference based on geographic areas as well as the type rods involved. It's an interesting article and also has a couple pages on the "hows" and "whys" that some builders charge what they do. All in all, we got the toughts of about 30 rod builders who are actually selling rods across the US and Canada.

..............

IT all depends on what teh market will pay, and most importantly, how well you market yourself. If you are a good salesman, but not a great Rodbuilder, you can build a reputation in an area and have people pay $600 for a rod with $150 worth of components on it, and a simple diamond wrap.

I know from my experiances, and from talking to others - most of teh people who buy rods could care less about threadwork & fancy grips - they appreciate teh work, but are not willing to pay $200+ to have in on their rods. I bet most of the work you see posted on the site, is either personal rods, or rods for good friends & family of teh builder where he put the satisfaction of building the rod over making a few dollars. If they are for customers, that would be another reason you don't see too many pictures posted by the "artists", as they don't have many orders for super custom stuff.

imo

As the price goes up, the size of the market goes down. This is true of most things. In part 3, we're going to cover the prices of things like decorative wraps, weaves, handle work, etc., along with comments of guys who sell this sort of thing. Billy is correct, there are people who will pay for it, but they don't make up a large percentage of the total market for custom rods.

In the meantime, I think many guys will be more than a little surprised at the prices that most builders are currently charging and selling rods for. We got a pretty good cross section of builders involved in the survey and I have to say that I was a little surprised myself at the prices being charged.

...................

I have also found it two ways,
some people want all the pretty stuff for nothing money,
then a plain rod going for big money

Go figure

I like that saying in Toms last artical
If you sell to every one - your prices are too low
If you sell to no one - they are too high

A lot of it has to be your area of the country, I'm in Virginia Beach, Va. and the prices are much lower here than the northeast and the southeast {Fla.}. We have a very large customer base, over a million people in a 50 mile radious, mostly military and working class people. I have had a retail custom rod shop for over 13 years now and sell a lot of rods, average price $150.00, a few between $200.00 and $400.00 and the most expensive rod I've ever built went for $600.00. Not much call for the fancy thread work but my encapsulated grips and hozels are more the norm than something extra. There are not a whole lot of people that appreciate thread work outside of rod builders as we are the only ones that know how much time and skill is involved in doing it.I am looking forward to seeing what this survey has brought out on a nationwide scale. Jesse

This is from an email I got the other day, after I offered him a 6'6" 2wt for $140 which I had as an extra:

I'm looking for a 2 wt, and my budget demands that I find a very good deal. This rod at $140 certainly qualifies as a very good, but for that much money, it's not quite close enough to what I'm looking for.

I'd like it to be around 7'6" or 8", and I'd like one with a lifetime warranty. (I've had two ultralight spinning rods break while fishing, so I'm trying to buy with caution.) Also, my dad has a rod with sliding reel-mount rings, and when I've used it, it seems I'm constantly tightening those up. So I'd like a rod with an uplocking reel seat that I won't have to be fooling with all day.

I'm not sure who this guy thought he was fooling, especially with the lifetime warranty bit, but I told him he might want to check into Cabela's rods.




Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

Scott,

You might ask him what he means by a "lifetime" warranty. Tell him that you certainly guarantee your work for his lifetime but you do not guarantee rods against breakage due to accidents, neglect, abuse, rough handling, etc. Too many customers are getting the idea that if a rod breaks for any reason, it was defective.

Of course, if he thinks that $140 is a lot of money for a fishing rod, he's not the type clientele you want to cultivate. Many rod builders are simply going after the wrong end of the market. None of us can compete with Wal-mart or even Bass Pro and trying to convert their customers into ours is mostly a waste of time. Even if you get them, you'll never make any money on them. You did the right thing in sending him elsewhere.

...................

Tom's right, he is not worth the time you could give him a one time special offer on that rod of $300.00 LOL

And considering I've been selling that series of rods for $250ish, I thought $140 was a great deal. Sure, the parts total about $50-60, but I like to think that I put a bit more time and knowledge into the assembly than Walmart/BassPro's overseas source.

In the end, like you said, I probably could meet the specs and price for this one time, but then I'd be stuck with that for him and all his friends, etc; not to mention the inevitable warranty claims. Cabela's Clear Creek rods aren't bad, especially if you're going to be going through them like matchsticks. He goes to Cabela's, finds what he wants, and is happy, and maybe some day when he feels a need for something real nice, he'll look into the custom thing again...

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

Scott Got to add the price for that nice web site also

Wow giving him a custom fly rod for $140 is a steal, that is $80 labor! I assume it was a Forecast or Tiger eye. Even if he goes to Cabela's most of there sticks are in that price range or above. Unless he goes with the absolute minimum of what they offer, which isn't much. I actually built a forecast 6'6 2wt for a budget minded friend who fished with the lower priced stuff at Cabela's. I made the rod at cost with the stipulation that he give it to his son when he is ready to try his hand at fly casting, it's the fun thing I can do for the kid that means something to me. Also I got a little funky on the design and it was good experimenting for nothing out of my pocket. Now he wants one built for him now, and won't even touch his other rods. Glad I put the kids name on the rod! Without a customer truly valuing the fishablilty and uniqueness of a custom rod they won't pay for it when they can just grab a rod from a shelf and be done with it.

Heh, price for the website. I'm pretty sure I didn't pay anyone else to do it! :)

It was a Forecast 6'6" 2 weight 4 piece-- nothing fancy. Metallic blue thread, #10 SF zirconia stripper, hard chrome SF running guides, discontinued PacBay slide band seat, superfine grip. Decal, hookkeeper, winding check, etc. too.

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

From my point of view, at the moment anyway, I build for my enjoyment first and for some dollars second. I have plenty of orders and because I am am building "one off" rods and not charging huge prices for them, many are return customers. Most of my newer customers are from "word of mouth" which seems to be spreading exceptionally well. Depending on the type of work the customer wants I've been charging between $150 and $200 for labor/time. On a decent rod with turned cork handle, turned seat, decorative wrap and fancy guide trim, I think this is exceptionally reasonable and so do most of the people who want something special. I also look at it this way. I am not in this on a full time professional basis (yet) and I am still pushing to improve my ability to the point where at some time in the future I may be able to demand higher returns. I look at some of the rods shown on this site and can't believe the craftsmanship and originality. I really don't ever want to turn my hobby into something like work and end up not enjoying it.

Regards
Mark
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