Thanks to all on this forum and the current issue of Rodmaker, I'm convinced that even a tiny bit of weight saving makes a noticeable difference as all the tiny bit of weight saving in each component gets added up.

So.....instead of the traditional A sized thread, I'm looking to use silk. (These are for 3-7 weight rods so silk is plenty strong.) Hope you guys don't mind some basic questions:

1. Is there a brand of silk thread that is acknowledged as offering the best strength for a given thread size? What brands so you guys like?
2. What thread sizes does silk come in? And what does the sizes mean?
3. I'll be either using lacquer (Gudebrod 811?) or U40 in VERY thin coats to keep weight down. Would I need color preserver? (I may use black silk on black blanks.)
4. Another route is to just use white silk, no color preserver, and just let it go transparent.

Thanks in advance for your help. You guys are great!

Blessings,
Mo

[Unfortunately, I do not know how to maintain the Tables tabs and spacing when Posting to this RBO website. I'll try punctuaion marks some other time.]

The following is a Table of Wrap Strengths for Gudebrod Threads:

.....THREAD ........... THREAD........ TENSILE....... WRAP STRENGTH
....... SIZE .............. DIAMETER ... STRENGTH .. PER UNIT WIDTH
(Gudebrod brand)(millimeters) ... (pounds) .... (pounds / centimeter)

00 - SILK 0.125 2.0 160
00 - REGULAR NYLON 0.113 1.8 159
A - REGULAR NYLON 0.175 2.7 154
A - NCP 0.175 2.2 126
A - HT METALLIC 0.150 3.5 233

MO - I'm trying to post the rest of this Table later. This should cover you for now. Unfortunately, I don't have any data for the density of the Gudebrod Silk Thread.

But what I hope will work, is using the number of yards in a 1.0 ounce spool, and by calculation, convert this into a relative weight of thread per centimeter-width of thread wrap along the blank's long axis. Even this is a calculation which can be done without incorporating the blank diameter. (But we do need the thread diameter.) This calculation wouldn't give an absolute point-mass calculation, but it will help decide the relative weight (mass) of different thread sizes for a given width of thread wrap.

Integrating the "Strength of the Wrap" calculations with the "Weight of the Wrap" calculations in a single Table for a given brand (or brands) of Thread will make ready comparisons of these variables much more convenient. And once they are learned, since most of us tend to build tha same style and class of fishing rod, that decision will become like second nature to us. It is that way now for many situations, and such a Table can help refinbe the process. -Cliff Hall-

Hey Mo. I have found that 3/0 (#50) silk thread is the most practical. A nylon is the same as 1/0. Silk is also sold as 4/0 (#100) and 6/0 (Gossamer, the one they use for clear wraps). 4/0 works well on smaller tapered feet, but is a little tough to jump onto a thicker foot without leaving a gap. I have had some gudebrod 3/0 that frayed, so usually use YLI or Clover from Golden Witch. Gudebrod 840 acts as a finish and as a CP and is probably perfect for you in a darker color. I hope the designations are right, if not, Golden Witch has this info in their catalogue. The old black can varathane varnish also acted as a CP, but the folks at GW tell me that they have changed the formula.

Cliff and Don,

THANKS for the help. Appreciate it.

Any other comments also welcome.

Blessings,
Mo

A few years ago, I did some tests of silk thread to compare diameters. I did so by counting the number of wraps needed to consume a fixed space on a test dowel. Here's what I have:

Thread Wraps/0.5” Index

Gossamer 108 1.00
YLI #100 (3/0) 103 0.95
Naples 87 0.81
Rice 00 (old stock) 84 0.78
Belding Corticelli A 78 0.72
Tire #50 75 0.69
YLI #50 72 0.67
Janome #50 72 0.67
Gudebrod 00 (modern) 72 0.67
Gudebrod Nylon Size A 68 0.64

Basically, I like all of the thread listed above except for the Gudebrod silk -- it just looks too bulky. For the Rice and the Belding Corticelli you'll have to find oldtock -- the others are still made. I like silk mainly because of the variety of colors and shades, quite a bit different from the standard Gudebrod nylon that everyone seems to use.

--Rich

Wow Rich, you sure tried quite a few and did a great test. Very helpful.

Did you come up with a personal favorite brand?

And which vendor carries the widest selection of silk?

Thanks,
Mo

I like the Janome #50. In only comes in a few colors but almost all of them are great for rod building:

[www.creativelysew.com]


The Tire and YLI are nice too. I think Angler's Workshop's silk is the YLI (sponsor for this board, link on left side of page). Tire can be gotten from:

[www.webofthread.com]

--Rich

I've only used Pearsall's glossomer 6/0 white. Check out Golden Witch's site for info. They claim it has less fuzzies than the other brands and is the finest. It must be strong enough if it's used on $$$$$ cane rods. I Think you'll need two spools for one rod. They are tiny.

Tony