Greetings,

With Steve's permission, I'm posting some e-mail interaction with Steve about his considerable experience building spin rods from fly blanks.

My questions to Steve:

Greetings,

Doing an extended search on rodbuilding, you seem to be one of the builders who have a good bit of experience turning fly rods into spin rods. Hope you don't mind a few questions:

1. What range weight fly rods have you tested?
2. I'm looking at about 8-9 footers - Do you ever trim the tip to make action faster?
3. To cast 1/4 oz or a bit more lures, what weight fly blank do you recommend?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Mo

Steve's response:

Mo,

I have made quite a few rods in the 7' to 7.5' range from fly blanks. These projects were all intended to be spin/fly travel rods. The basic formula is to take a 9' fast action fly blank (AA of 67 or higher preferable) with an ERN in the 4.5-8.0 range and shorten the butt section 1.5 to 2' to get my desired length. I chose this length because it seems like a good compromise in length to get good functionality as both a fly or spin rod. If you are out West and use very long spin rods, perhaps leaving the blank full length would be good for you. For a handle I usually use a Tennessee shaped cork with rings or sliding Philipson style reel seat. These rods were built to be very CONVENIENT AND VERSATILE, not necessarily the best performing rods. I build them for people who like to travel and fish and can only take one rod with them. Due to the nature of a spin/fly travel rod, you couldn't realistically hope to optimize performance while making so many design compromises in the name of versatility.

If you shorten any rod from the tip or the butt, it will be slower in action than the original full length blank. I've never seen an exception to this. Check the CCS database and you will see this is true. AA values always drop when you shorten a blank. You may be thinking about power. If you shorten the rod from the tip, the rod will be more powerful. Think of it this way - you have just removed the least powerful part of the blank (the soft tip), which is precisely the part the makes the blank fast action (soft tip IS fast action). On a mag bass spin or spin jig for example, the tip is very soft and the mid and butt are very powerful. So, overall, you have a fast action rod.

Hope this helps and maybe gives you some ideas. Got any questions, feel free to ask.

Steve

I asked in turn:

Steve,

THANKS for the informed response. Really appreciate it. Helpful.

The only question I have in dialogue is whether shortening the tip always slows down the action.

For example, lets say I have a 10 foot blank with 4 feet tip that is flexible. That would be a moderate to moderate slow blank. Lets say I take off 2 feet off, which still leaves a 8 foot rod with 2 foot tip action. It seems that would then become a very fast rod. Please let me know where I'm missing the concept.

Again, THANKS for your help. I'm determined to make this work....:)

Thanks,
Mo

Here's Steve's final response. Feel free to chime in if you have any thoughts.

Mo,

If you did what you describe below, you would get a rod that is slower action, but more powerful, and the response time or resonant frequency would be faster (not the same as action). In other words if you set the tip in action, it would quickly stop vibrating and return to still. Action is where the rod primarily bends when the tip is first deflected. Before the Common Cents System, it was measured by the simple method of gently pushing the tip of the rod or blank into the floor or ceiling to see how much of the rod blank initially bends (1/4, 1/2, 1/3, etc.). If you take a mag bass blank and do this, you see why it is fast action and the Action Angle (AA) defined by the Common Cents System (CCS) would most likely record it in the mid to upper 70s. In contrast, if you took an Orvis Superfine fly blank and did this, you'd see that the tip does not deflect that easily on it's own without the entire blank starting to deflect. That defines that blank as moderate or slow and the AA on those blanks generally comes in in the mid to upper 50s.

If you begin using the CCS on your rods and blanks, the relationships between action, power, and resonant frequency really start to make sense. And you can define them all quantitatively and make simple and quick comparisons between blanks. Hope this helps. Testing is believing. Start using CCS and you'll see what I mean.

Steve

Mo,
What is the average mono. line wt. of a 5-6wt. fly blank?
I read another post on this subject and still confused?

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond,

Fly line doesn't convert to mono as one is weight and another is breaking test.

My educated guess is that 5-6wt can protect 4-10 lb mono.

Mo

I don't have the email any more but in a conversation with Steve he mentioned getting ahold of a unique reelseat that slid up and down a 12" cork handle, but attached itself to the rod solidly whenever needed. Like I said, I don't have the email or remember what the thing was called, but maybe Steve will chime in here...

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

I don't have the email any more but in a conversation with Steve he mentioned getting ahold of a unique reelseat that slid up and down a 12" cork handle, but attached itself to the rod solidly whenever needed. Like I said, I don't have the email or remember what the thing was called, but maybe Steve will chime in here...

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

That's right, I have some seats that were sold to me as old Philipson seats and they do what Scott describes. They're just inexpensive seats but the design is very clever and they're perfect for this type of project. They are more secure than rings but don't weigh much more and you can put them exactly where you want them on the cork.

Thanks Mo,
I know fly line is classified by weight and has nothing to do with breaking
strength. Dispite my use of terms you did figure out what I was looking
for. Am I to assume that if a 5-6wt flyrod blank was built into a spinning or
casting rod the completed rod would have a 4-10lb line-class? So, a 12wt.
Flyrod blank could be rated at 20lb. ? Or there abouts?
Instead of hammering you guys with questions, I'll need to search the site!

Thanks everyone!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Fly to spin just put the line weight over 16 gets you in the ball park. For spin to fly do the reverse.

Then cc the blank or tape on guides and try it out

I stumbled into this site by accident. I recently lost the above-described rod when I inadvertantly drove off forgetting that I had the rod and reel (spinning) leaning up against the car. Of course, when I realized what happened, about three hours later, and drove back, the rod/reel were long gone.

I really miss this outfit. Fortunately my Galvin fly reel was not on the rod when it went "missing." I would like to replace it. I paid $110.00 for the rod back in 1995. It was very easy to cast either way (fly or spin) and had a nice action that I'd describe as medium fast, with flexing well into the first half of the second section. If I can't find a replacement rod, I'd like to try to replicate this rod by building one. I don't recall the model number. Let me know the blanks and hardware I should use.

Also, I have heard that Orvis made a very similar rod (spin/fly) but in four sections rather than three. If I can't find a St. Croix, will I get pretty much the same rod with an Orvis?

Lastly, I really like the "Tennessee" style of handle. Where can I purchase such handles along with the rings for seating the reels? Thanks. PEM