I've been building rods for a little over a year. I have a mentor, thank goodness, who spent a lot of time with me showing me how to (amoung other things) finish. He domonstrated and supervised and finishing is still the most difficult thing about rod building for me. I am using Classic Coat and it takes me about three one-ounce batches to get through a 7' saltwater rod. Here is exactly what I do:

After checking guide alinement and making sure all the wraps are non-fuzzed and clean, I put the rod in the rack and switch to "dry" @ 8 RPM, then I very, very carefully mix my fininsh 1:1. I stir it, making sure to scrap the side and stir throughly. I get a nice consistency with a lot of small (an occasionally some large) bubbles. I let it set for about a minute, allowing most of the bubbles to rose to the top, then hit it for a split second with the torch to kill the bubbles. I use a fingernail polish one-use brush and, starting in the middle of each guide, push the finish up under the guide feet, around the wrap and then, using the side of the brush, bring the finish toward the edge one side at a time. After about three wraps, I hit the finish with the torch to kill bubbles and make it flow. I take off from the bottom any extra that shows up as "sags". I repeat with all of the wraps. The butt wrap I do essentially the same, starting at the handle and working my way out, past the end of the wrap and over the label. I go beyond each edge on the rod about 1/8th inch. I then put it in an "anti-bug" screened drying box that works well for the purpose, turning with a 8 RPM drying motor.

The major problem I have is that, because the finish sets up so fast (getting gummy in about 12 -- 15 minutes), the last wrap in each batch is very difficult to fire and get smooth; sometimes impossible. So, I usually have to go with a second, and sometimes third, coat. It takes me about an hour on a seven-guide rod with a 7 -- 9" buttwrap.

When my mentor does it, the finish just flows and looks beautiful all the time. Maybe that just shows what 15+ years of experience does for you! But, I am hoping one of you may have a word or way of explaination that will click my two remaining brain cells together.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Tight wraps,

JC

JC,
Your problem could be a mental thing. You may be so scared that you are going to mess up and you're taking too long to put the finish on. Don't worry about being perfect, just do it and with time you will be as good as your mentor. It is all a matter of practice, repetition, repetition, repetition. We have all been there. One day you will look back and wonder how you messed up in the first place.

JC,

This year I have been through 4 brands of finish, each performed differently for me. You may want to try a few and see if one works better over the other for YOU.

I've settled on Aftcoat, for some reason this finish works better and easier than any I have tried to date. It's thin, penetrates well and one light coat, followed by a 2nd light coat the next day just made my last finish on a ST Croix IV perfect. By far the best finish job I've done yet.

Other guys do well with other brands, just try a few and see which you like best ...may? be all you need to do.

Just a thought......

DR

I agree with DR above. Still, there are basic steps you can follow that should keep you out of trouble.....

LOTS and lots has been written regarding this topic. A search will reveal many posts from many folks. Persoanlly I would forget about applying ANY heat to the finish before you apply it - this only speeds the curing (gelling) of the finish. Yes, heat does pop bubbles, but the problem are bubbles in the finish ON THE ROD, not in the cup. Also, go with a thin first coat, and follow up with a 2nd thicker coat 24 hrs later.

On the first coat concentrate on speed, and applying a THIN coat - dont have to be all that neat except along the edges. Come back immediately after you're done with initial application and check for any dry spots, touch those up. Let the rod set with guides up for 10-15 min, removed any drips. ONLY NOW should you breifly, only BRIEFLY, use flame to pop any bubbles. Rotated rod guides down and leave the rod undisturbed for 24 hrs. Follow up with a 2nd coat using the same procedure, except use a thicker coat and place rod in dryer to keep it rotating. Apply heat ONLY after finish is on rod. DO NOT OVERHEAT or you'll ruin the underlying cured finish.

Lou
Va Beach, VA

You didn't mention what brand of finish that you are using. They all have different characteristics and set time. The finish shouldn't be getting "gummy" in 12-15 minutes. The heat you are applying may be speeding up the set time. When your finish is mixed, pour it out onto a piece of foil. This will allow the bubbles to escape and also extend the pot life of the finish. I would not apply any heat until after the finish is on the wrap and rarely then.

It sounds like you are spending way to much time "fussing" with it. Put it on quickly and let it do it's stuff! I quickly apply to all the wraps turning by hand and then go back and check for missed/bare spots and touch up. I manually turn every 10-15 minutes or so (wicking excess off of the bottom) for an hour or so until it satrts to set up and then turn the dryer on. This gives me the best, most level finishes of any method that I have tried. After driving myself nuts and never being happy with my finish, I found (thanks to this board) that the less I do to it, the better the results.

Mike

Torching the finish isn't making it flow - it's making it set up faster than it would otherwise. Skip the torching. If you want more pot life and fewer bubbles, stir slower and then pour the mix out onto a flat piece of aluminum foil. Most any bubbles will come out once the finish has thinned on the foil.

You shouldn't take more than about 30 seconds to coat a guide wrap. Load your brush, lower it to the wrap, rotate the rod (by hand) underneath it and then move over one brush width and repeat until the wrap is coated. Coat all the wraps and then, and only then, go back and touch in any dry areas or places you missed.

All epoxy finishes flow and level automatically - they don't need your help. So don't muss and fuss with them too much. Get the wraps coated quickly, then go back and correct any problem areas and then leave it alone.

One last thing, if bubbles are a problem (you did not indicate that they were) you can make a mechanical mixer for your finish and guarantee yourself a 100% bubble free mix. Couple that with restraint on brushing the finish around on the wraps, and you shouldn't have many, if any, bubbles to deal with.

..................

I've used Classic Coat for over ten years and am still very happy with it. Some comments on my usage may help:

I never use heat with Classic, I mix a maximum of 2 grams (nvever less thatn 1 gram of each)of each in the small cheapo plastic cups, I mix for about 3 minutes using a popsicle stick(rotate the cup, not the stick to get no bubbles) and pour into a tinfoil cup I bought a pack of from Clemens yrs ago that i rinse out with denatured alcohol when done.

I apply the finish using the cheapo yellow flexcoat throwaway brushes and apply with the rod in my lath. i do each guide turning by hand but don't do the edges at this time. If the finish is sagging when you're doing this step you're putting it on too thick. When all the guides are done this way, I do the edges with my brush by turning the rod with my lath at a moderate speed which allows getting an even finish on the edges of the guides, weaves and buttwraps.

I then put the rod into my dryer which turns at around 8 rpm like yours, and do the butt wrap. After several minutes I brush the butt wrap with long strokes from one end to the other, about 15-20 or so times to level the finish-I usually have a weave in the middle of the butt wrap and end up with about 4 coats total over the wrap and weave so the weave is flush with the buttwrap.
I touch up the guides and weaves while its turning on the dryer and brush out any bubbles that may have appeared.

Only problem I occasionally have is with a strange breed of insect that inhabits San Diego which hides out till I leave my drying room and then attempts to nest in the still drying finish.

Jim,
The same bugs are out here in El Cajon, too!

Thank you all for the advice. My next one should go easier!

JC

I use U-40 HiBuild and mix it using an epoxy mixer (RodMaker article). The HiBuild is so thick that I don't use the ball bearings, but rather use one of Joe Kassuba's spatulas held stationary close to the side of the turning cup container. Mix for a timed 4 minutes and pour out on aluminum foil. I put the aluminum foil over a 12" X12" marble tile square from Lowe's, hopefully to keep the mixed epoxy a shade cooler while letting any bubbles dissipate.

After several minutes about 5-6, the epoxy is spread quickly over all the guides, turning by hand and using one of Joe's spatulas. The edges are then trued up with a little epoxy overlap onto the blank itself. I use a homemade wrapper with foot pedal for this phase. I've only wrapped singlefooted guides and find care must be taken when applying finish about the upright guide portion. A bodkin is used to apply finish in that area so as not to get too much epoxy overlap onto the blank. The bodkin is also used to insure the tunnel is filled.

After all this effort, I still find I it easy to screw up the finish it the area beneath the upright single footed guides due to their angle on the rod.

If any bubbles seen, using an Optivisor, touching them with something pointed gets rid of them.

Excess epoxy is removed from the dripline at the bottom of the rod. As Tom said, the epoxy is self-leveling due to gravity. Just leave it alone and it will level if the centerline of the rod is level.

Stan

Jim,

Forgot to add that once the epoxy is applied, the wrapper belt is switched to another motor and the epoxy turned at about 8 RPM for 5 hours, or until the aluminum sheet & mixing cup epoxy is tack-free.

Stan

One more suggestion is to make sure your brush is saturated and free of air bubbles.I move a small amount of finish to the side and work the brush into it and then kind of wring it out with the mixing stick,you`ll be suprised how many bubbles are trapped in the brush that will come out when you do the tunnel.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I have been using Glass Coat for a while now.
I have changed to a slower setting finish.
Works better, less problems

Of course you could use Klass Kote epoxy paint and get a pot life of about 3 hours.

One way to get extra set time out of small batches of epoxy is to grab an aluminum can of soda/beer out of the fridge, turn it upside down, and mix the finish in the littlow hollow at the bottom of the can. The aluminum won't cause any negative reactions, and the cold slows the set-up process.

If anybody has some knowledge that the cold could somehow screw up the epoxy, post here and let me know!

It won't hurt anything, but it's extremely hard to work with when it's that cold. You have let it return to room temp before you can really do much with it, and while it's returning to room temp, it's setting up.

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