I have been using less and less epoxy on my freshwater trout (3-5 wt.) fly rod guide wraps. After wrapping with moderate tension (adjustable but not loose), i may or may not apply one thin coat of CP, then a single moderate-thickness coat of high build epoxy. The threads are 95-100% covered, but no epoxy flows between the guide and raw blank. I also epoxy right to the first wrap, but not over it onto the blank. I use single foot guides almost exclusively and haven't had one pull out yet. Am I taking a risk using so little epoxy? My goal is to minimize weight and still have secure attachment and protection.

Jim
Stonefly Custom Rods

I also do a lot of light fly rods. 1st coat is 840, then one thickened coat of Klass Kote epoxy paint. This is way less finish than you are describing. I would add a blocking wrap ahead of the foot as it creates a more uniform finish and added strength at the tunnel. I suspect that the 840 saturates the thread enough that no overlap onto the blank is actually required. Try the 840 as an undercoat and a topcoat of the lightest low-build epoxy you can get.

Thanks Don. Do you think that it's necessary to get the finish to flow into the tunnel? Since single-foot guides sweep upward, the tunnel can be quite vast. I don't want to gob it up with epoxy if I can avoid it.

Jim

I may be wrong but I think that you may be flirting with disaster. Without finish extending to the blank and sealing it, I would think that moisture would eventually get beneath the wrap causing problems.

I understand the quest for less weight but somewhere along the line I would think that you would encounter diminishing returns

Mike

Before I would use so little epoxy, I would want to measure the amount of weight I was actually saving on a rod and understand the effect on the rods action. It may be much ado about nothing.

I too think you are asking for problems; not right away but down the road. And for little or no return.

I don't get a lot of build up but I do fill in the thread to guide tunnel and carry the epoxy just a bit beyond the wrap edges. I'm trying to use the epoxy to seal the thread edges to the blank. Seems to work well for me in several years of doing this.

Without filling the tunnels there is no way to stop water intrusion...it's like leaving your front door wide open. I would suspect that you will be re-wrapping sooner than you would like to.

Just my opinion.

Jay

Jim

I can tell you from experience that the single foot guides can (and likely will) pull out when enough stress is placed on them in the right direction. Having been a late convert from the tradional snake guides to the single foot style, I did not use a blocking or locking wrap on the guide foot. Once the first 2 rods were returned to me for repair when some of the guides pulled out, I wised up and placed a few blocking wraps in front on the guide foot and have never had a problem since (or locking wraps on the heavier weight rods). There is another plus in this type of wrap. The epoxy will seep into the tunnel and create a water tight seal. I think this is necessary in order to avoid some longer term problems. I'm with you on the avoidance of unnecessary weight but I too think that you need to have the epoxy cover slightly over the edge of the thread and when done properly does not detract front the clean, professional appearance.

The easyest thing to do to make sure your guides do not come out is to put a Forhan locking wrap on all single foot guides.
Even two turns around the post then maybe three turns after the post will hold them in very well.
Check out the Libery page on making the wrap.
Yea I know it says three turns around the post - nothing is written in stone ! Even one turn is better then none at all.

Jim. With a blocking wrap 4 to 5 turns ahead of the post you really can't help but to fill the tunnel, particularly if you put a drop of finish there first, before completing the wrap. A Forhan locking wrap and a blocking wrap on the first 2 guides, if you must. I always go just off the edge with the epoxy paint, but I don't think with the 840 this is necessary as it is very, very thin and will penetrate the thread completely. I recently weighed a stripper wrap and finish at .09 grams, a running guide wrap and finish at the tip at .01 grams, if this helps you.

The single foot guides that I use most often -- American Tackle's Titan series -- have a long foot with indentations near the tip and again near the guide ring. I'm counting on these indentations to secure the guide, even though I have yet to have any single foot guide, Titans or otherwise, pull out. Also, since winding thread is nylon, it is impervious to water damage, as is (obviously) the blank. In the old days, when I made rods from bamboo, silk, and varnish, I was more concerned with the effects fo water.

Jim

The single foot guides that I use most often -- American Tackle's Titan series -- have a long foot with indentations near the tip and again near the guide ring. I'm counting on these indentations to secure the guide, even though I have yet to have any single foot guide, Titans or otherwise, pull out. Also, since winding thread is nylon, it is impervious to water damage, as is (obviously) the blank. In the old days, when I made rods from bamboo, silk, and varnish, I was more concerned with the effects of water.

Jim

Try the blocking wrap. You will like it.