Got to dis agree with you Tom. There is no bigger Flexcoat Fan than my self and the arbors are nice but very time consuming. I usually make 3 tape bushings under the reel seat which take 30 to 60 seconds by power and a couple of minutes by hand. I use Kardol glue and really pack it in so there is almost continious glue for the length of the reel seat. Of the thousands I've done over the years I may have a dozen come loose that I know of. Jesse

If you've had any come loose, you might want to look at another seat mounting method. Reel seats shouldn't come loose. Not on good custom rods, anyway.

I can mount a seat with the Flex Coat arbors in less than 30 seconds flat. That includes sizing and boring the arbor. I don't have to pack heavy epoxy into gaps and spaces, just a thin glue line (that's the proper way to use most adhesives - the thinner the glue line, the stronger the bond).

But everybody will have their own preferred way of doing things. That's why I suggested that Andrew try both methods. I doubt he'll have trouble with his masking tape supported seats, but he may wish to venture out and try some other methods. He's certainly been presented with many here.

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"Of the thousands I've done over the years I may have a dozen come loose that I know of." Did I read that right???? How many have come loose that you don't know of? No offense but that just comes off sounding sorta bad. I know that commercial manufacturers of various products all have an acceptable defect rate, but I would hope that the same rate for custom rod builders would be very much, much lower. I don't think I would tolerate any loose seats on the rods I build and sell.

I don't mind having to rewrap a guide after a few years if needed, but once I mount a reel seat I want to consider it permanent.

Tom,

You made an interesting point regarding glue line thickness. Some years ago I contacted a major uk player Ceiber Giby Ltd ( not sure of the spelling) and asked for their reccommendations on glue line thickness for their std two pack 2 hour slow set Epoxy glue ,when gluing on radial surfaces such as arbors etc. If I remember rightly the suggestion was approx 0.010 of an inch. which to some would not equate to a particularly thin glue line.
It would be considered quite rightly as too thick when gluing corks shives for instance. Some glues evidentaly do not perform well with very thin glue lines, whilst others only work well with very thin lines. What would be useful would be readily available information from the producers preferably written onto the packaging telling us what approx glue line thickness we should try for. It various for different viscosity epoxies even. Has any data ever been published in the Rod Building Mag or in past posts perhaps that would be of considerable use to most if not all builders of custom rods. Without specific data what exactally for instance is a thin glue line, it's going to be interpreted potentially in many different ways by us builders. To some 0.010 is thin to others 0.005. We need to know to get the best integrity joins possible with the adhesives that are in common use by custom Ros Builders. It is not just the argument of Tape verses Arbors that is the whole storty in joing components well.

Look forward to your reply

Regards Mike Oliver

Epoxies do not require clamping pressure as do many if not most other adhesives. Most have pretty darn good cohesive strength in addition to adhesive strength. But unless you're talking about a heavy paste-type epoxy marketed for gap-filling purposes, the thinner the glue line the better.

We did a very comprehensive article in RodMaker some years back where we discussed optimum glue lines and prep work for using epoxies. There is no optimum glue line thickness for any particular epoxy without also knowing what materials are being bonded - yes, they too figure into the equation.

Here's what do know with regards to rod building - Parts should fit snugly - a slip fit if you're familar with that term. Neither sloppy loose nor force-fit tight. Epoxy must be placed on all mating surfaces (if only placed on one, you run the risk of just squegeeing it off that surface as you slide your parts together) and then the pieces brought into contact. The idea that a poor fit can be remedied by just pouring epoxy into the assembly or joint is a bad one - it doesn't add strength, just more weight, slight though it may be. For the purpose of use in rod building, a thinner glue line will nearly always be better than a thicker one.

Luckily, and as I've said many times, the stresses that most fishing rods are subject to are rarely enough to really test any modern epoxy. Even when used in some odd ways, most of them will hold up and keep our rods together. In the end, how much care you wish to put into fitting and epoxing your parts really comes down to your intention and ability as a craftsman. Some spend more time than others on the task, but most rods hold up to most fishing situations.

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Tom,

Thanks for the input on glue line thickness. Now I was not aware in my ignorance that it was necassary to coat both components with epoxy and I guess this includes the ID of reel seats, preformed cork handles and grips?

Mike OLiver

Most certainly, yes. On things that slide down over the blank, put epoxy on the blank well above where the item starts to get snug. Bring the piece down and twist and turn it on the adhesive to fully and completely coat the inside of the item. Then slide the rest of the way into place, and onto the area where it will reside which should also have a bit of adhesive on it.

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As I said, I work for a major manufacturer of tape products which includes masking tape. I know what it's made from, how it's made and what it's intended purpose it. And I would NEVER put it on a rod of mine for anything. If you guys knew what I know about it, I don't think you would either. Glad it works for most of you but it WILL break down. It's designed to.

OK, coming to this thread a bit late. Hope people are still reading.

Are the Flexcoat arbors very spongy or are they very rigid? If we wanted a very senstive handle, would these soak up the vibrations if they are spongy? I figure a super rigid arbor would be the best in tranmitting vibrations.

Thanks in advance,
Mo

Mo,
The F/C arbors are hard.
Noel

They are very light, yet very rigid. Ideal for sensitivity.

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