I'm assembling five fly rods ranging from 3 to 6 wt. and 4 Ultra light spinning rods. I'm wondering if the masking tape arbors I'm building up underneath the reel seats will last over time. Have any of you had problems with loose reel seats because of tape shrinkage or aging. Could any of you suggest a better (but still cheap) alternative? Thanks so much!
Andrew

I tried the Pac Bay graphite arbors. They were pretty good but at about 1" long it's pretty fussy with three of them. Then I tried the Flex Coat arbors and would never consider anything else, unless the space I had to fill was too small. The FC arbors are long, easy to ream and drill out with their drill bits. I put them on a mandrel and turn them down on my lathe to the correct OD then glue them in the seat with Rod Bond, then drill them out and finally ream to fit.

I have used masking tape in the past and have a hard used rod that still works fine.

Right, masking tape will get you by but there are better and faster methods, such as the Flex Coat arbor system. It's really hard to beat. Very fast and very sturdy over the long haul.

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I agree with Gerry and Tom, use the Flex Coat arbors. The masking tape MAY work but the F/C arbors are pretty cheap insurance.
Hope this helps,
Noel

West coast tuna fisherman have been using heavy saltwater rods for over 30 years that i'm aware of using the masking tape method with great results. Can't imagin any problems using the method with light rods.

The only reel seat failures I have ever witnessed have been those installed over busings of masking tape. You will get a lot of people defending masking tape but give it some real thought as to what you are putting in there. Toilet paper with an adhesive on it. That is all masking tape really is. It is made to break down over time. I guess most rods with tape work fine but when one does let go you can almost be it will have masking tape used as bushings. Why take the chance especially when the FC arbors are quicker and easier to use.

I think you see more failures on rods shimmed with masking tape than other types mostly because there are so many rods out there with masking tape. Just about all factory rods are made this way. So I can't say if the actual percentage rate of failure would be any worse or not. Personally I'll only use tape if I'm taking up a very small area or gap. No more than 5 or 6 winds max. More than that then I use string or drywall tape. I have used some of the FlexCoat abors lately and have to say they're really great. Maybe the best of all, but you have to lay in a stock of center pin bits to get the most out of them. No big deal if you build lots of rods but if only a very few, then maybe other ways are less expensive.

I aggree with everyone else regarding masking tape arbors. It works in a pinch but duct tape
and drywall tape is far better. I'm sold on the flex-coat arbors and beleive that is the way to go!
They are great! However, if sensitivity is big issue, use the graphite arbors as there is nothing
better execpt maybe solid hardwood but there is a cost factor there.

Both arbors and dry wall tape are probably superior to masking tape but there are literally millions of rods being used, some of which have been used for many years, with masking tape as a spacer. Both dry wall tape and arbors have only been used relatively recently and they will more than likely work out long term just fine but how they will turn out long term is still a bit of an unknown.
The only masking tape failures that I have ever seen are ones that were not sealed properly and moisture got under the reel seat to the masking tape. If a little epoxy is applied to the ends of the masking tape to seal it so that moisture does not get to the masking tape the rod will probably last longer than the fisherman, or at least the reel seat will.

Sorry for the double posting



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2005 09:41PM by Emory Harry.

Sorry for the double posting

I have been building them with masking tape arbors for YEARS, approaching 30 years. I am still waiting for a reel seat failure due to a masking tape arbor. I have built numerous 30lb+ class saltwater rods (and even more lighter class) using both graphite and aluminum reel seats over masking tape arbors with no failures.

A masking tape arbor, first of all, is used for nothing more than to center the reel seat radially on the blank, NOT as a load bearing stucture. The epoxy added under the reel seat, between the gaps of the tape arbors, are what provides the bonding strength, NOT the masking tape. To this end I have never had an epoxy joint fail in this area. Once the epoxy hardens the masking tape might as well not be there because the epoxy bond will be so much much more stronger and firmer than the masking tape itself.

Some months ago I posted a message here or another message board regarding the results of soaking pieces of blank with reel seats mounted using masking tape arbors. Long story short story - no ONE reel seat loosened or weakened after soaking in water for many days. I even tried a pipe wrench to try to twist and break the bond, and only managed to furhter break the blank pieces or destroy the reel seat.

I agree, the reason you may see some reel seat bond failures is becuase there are many many thousands of rods made this way and you are seeing but a tiny fraction of these. Most of these failures are attributable to improper bonding prep and technique. has anyone seen the "cardboard tube" arbor? Many many more rods are commerically made this way too. If a masking tape arbor is improperly used, so that it is exposed and unsealed at the ends of the reel seat, then maybe over time that tape may very well decay. But not the cured epoxy that remains - that remains as strong as before. I always ensure that I apply the masking tape arbors so that they are recesses .5 - 1cm under the edges of the reel seat, then ensure that this space is well filled with paste epoxy.

Masking tape arbors easy to make - no grinding, pre-boring. Just wrap and you're done in minutes ready to install the reel seat.

Lou

Masking tape arbors just take too long. The Flex Coat type have spoiled me good. Mere seconds and you're done.

Packing epoxy in between tape just adds weight. You can do this sort of thing by any method but as someone who works for a manufacturer of various kinds of tape, including masking tape, I can tell you it is the WRONG thing to use on any fishing rod for any purpose. It is not made for this sort of thing and it is going to break down either from moisture or heat or age or a combination of these. Masking tape is not a permanent product. It was never intended to be.

I used masking tape in the past. I now use Dry wall tape I have been using dry wall for the past 6 or more years.
Good Wraps Bob

Thanks all of you for your suggestions. Andrew

Gotta chime in. I have been building rods since I was 15 years old and 90 plus percent of the bushing or arbors for the seat even the old Varmac hace been Masking take. I have NEVER, NEVER , NEVER had a failing and I have built rods for the big long range tuna boys by tghe hundreds.. As long as the reel that are slick on the inside(ruffen up) there wont be a failure - UNLESS the epoxy is the problem and not mixed properly. The reason I use is is because the materials are readily available and easy to use. If you do it right it is mostly epoxy anyway.

I gotta agree with Lou Reyna, the tape rings aren't "load bearing structures." They only contain the epoxy.

When I first started wrapping rods, my boss only let me do repairs and rewraps, many of which required removing and mounting reel seats. From that experience, I found that it's not the tape, but what's in between.

This is the way I set up seats based on what I learned from those experiences. I would lay down 2-3 bands with 1" gaps in between. I would rough up the gaps and the inside of the seat for a good bond. I would then lay a thick coat of epoxy in the first gap, then slide seat over, giving it several twist for good epoxy coverage. I would repeat for all the other gaps. I would then apply heat to the reel seat to get bette epoxy flow. I would then stand the rod up over night in a corner so that the epoxy would form 360 degree bands of bonding, instead of sagging to one side.

Andrew

The first fly rod I ever built had masking tape arbors. That was about 18 years ago. It is still rock solid. I just used good old plain masking tape and some sort of epoxy.

A year or so ago, I did not have the right arbor on hand and did not want to wait for a shipment so I used the blue masking tape for arbors. Not a problem. I'm actually surer of the more recent masking tape arbor because I used Rod Bond.

While the Flex Coat arbors are great, if you cannot get hold of the proper size and don't have the mechanics to turn them, the hand sanding can take as long as masking tape. If they are very near to the proper size, they are great. And they still have to be reamed. That there is no reaming involved is one of the nice things nice about using masking tape. You just keep winding until you get your fit and that's it.

But will it hold up? To tell you the truth, I would not hesitate to use blue masking tape on any rod that I build. It is not "de rigor" to do so anymore but masking tape still works very well, especially if you are careful in epoxy application and use Rod Bond.

And the price cannot be beat.

I just used the flex-coat arbors on a spinning rod and fly rod I'm building - I'm new to rodbuilding, but I can tell you after building one with masking tape, and now two with flex-coat arbors, I wil never use tape again. Tape is heavier overall than a flexcoat arbor, and is just not as sound mechanically. The whole idea here is to be building rods better than factory built. Factory built rods use tape - why not use the best product you can find???

Epoxy should never be used as a bushing. It wasn't designed for that. I know it will work most of the time in that capacity with regard to fishing rods because the reel seats really don't get stressed very much, but there are far better, easier and quicker ways to do the job more soundly. Those who use tape and believe in it aren't likely to change, but they are spending a lot of time on a task that can be done much more quickly by even better means.

If you're new to rod building and want to get started on a method for mounting seats, by all means give the Flex Coat arbors a shot. You can install the arbor and the seat in less time that it takes you to wind one tape bushing. And you'll have a mounting that for all intents and purposes is absolutely permanent under any and all conditions.

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