OK, having 'collected' as much info as possible, it seems quite clear that even for very light lines (2-4 lb test), a larger spool contributes significantly to longer casts. In the large bodies of waters in our area, the added distance is significant..

All this leads us to this reel:

[www.usreel.com]

Comments from other forums from 'real users' indicates that the reel really does what it claims. This reel has a huge 2 1/4" diameter or 57mm. Our normal UL reels are, at most, 1 1/2". Even the large Shimano 2500 or Daiwa 2500 series are only 1.9 inches in diameter. So this reel is a bit beyond even the 3000 class spin reel, but can function as a UL reel due to its lightweight. (8 oz with graphite spool.)

Going with the usual 'rule of thumb' that I've read here, the largest guide should be 1/2 the diameter of the spool. This means a size 30 guide! However, on a UL rod that's under 1.5 oz or so, that size 30 guide adds a LOT of weight . For example, a size 30 titanium LSVG SIC is more than 10% the weight of the entire rod! That's not even mentioning the next guide which is also larger etc.

Question:
What do you guys think? Can we get away with a size 20 starting guide and not hurt the casting distance? 25? Or would it be most advisable to get a 30?

Yes, I know, we should just 'go and test'. True. But wanted to start somewhere with informed thoughts from this community as I'm a big believer that collective wisdom is generally very close to the right answer.

As usual, THANKS in advance for your help.

Mo

I think that first guide size should be sized depending on the placement of the guide on the rod and the straight line path of the line from the reel center as is described in the new guides concept in the library and not by spool size. I would say look at that article for guide placement. The ony thing I did hear about that reel, watch out for your knuckles. WIth the bigger spool, means a bigger bail and I heard it has a tendancy to hit your fingers depending on how you hold the rod. I have tried one in the store and It was not going to work for me.

I don't think the spool size matters as much as many say it does. In fact, you don't want the line coming off the spool in large coils - you want it to come down and fly straight as soon as possible. With light line, this is easy to do. I'd stay with a high frame #20 (no larger) for that size line.

............

I never quite understood the need for very large guides on spinning rod. The monofilament line is relatively fine and as long as it goes through the center of the first guide (on the axis of the spool) does line slap really make a big difference between a 20 and a 30, or a 20 and a 16? I would also think a tamer might work wonders in this application, since once under control, the line would require only very small guides to the tip.

Can you tape the different guides on and do some test casts with the different guides?

I actually do think a large spool makes a difference when casting a UL spinning reel. I have never used aspool that large though.

Joe <*}(({{>>{

THANKS for the responses. Yes, I'll have to test cast except that I do not have guides in the 25 size so will have to get that.

I do hear you when you say that the 'spool' size doesn't matter that much with very light lines. That's what I thought. However, queries to others who have actual experience has consistently point to larger spool contributing to noticeably longer casting distances. This applies to people using the Supercaster to surf casters who use light lines in Europe. So the pattern seem consistent and we want to test it out.

Welcome any other thoughts. We hope to start with size 20 in the 'line of flight' and see how that goes.

Thanks!
Mo

Hi Mo,

We all can get very hung up on guide size especially for spinng reel applications on rod design. By accident I took with me to the States an 11 foot surf rod rated 1-3oz which had been rung for conventional reels Butt ring was 25 and first ring down from the tip was size 8. Now I found that a spinning reel was much easier to use in the conditions off the point in Montauk. I strapped on a VS200 and the local Sharpies had much fun regarding my ringing arrangement. Now I am not a big caster by any means but my 1.25 oz bucktail flew out past most of their's. This was with 50lb power pro line. The ribbing stopped pretty quick. I later picked up info from Fuji on their Low Rider guides and their theory behind small guides for spinning reels. I had accidently near as dam it replicated their thoughts onto my ZZiplex.

These days I am more concerned as to the weight of my guides than their size. A rod rung with smaller guides fishes a lot easier than one rung with oversized rings. An extreem example of this can be seen in some of the surf rods used for spinning for Stripers where the Butt guide is 50 and the shear weight of these guides mean stiffer blanks are needed just to handle the mass of these oversized rings and the sad thing is we don't need them to get the performance we are searching for.

Also you will find on an UL rod the limiting factor on your casting distance is not likely to be the size of your Butt guide but the limitations of your blank ie it's power. The light weight of any lure cast and the air friction it will encounter plus its areodynamics or lack of it in the shape of the lure will be another much bigger factor. I bet even a 12 or 16 would not make much if any differnce to your final distance cast and yopur rod will recover faster and feel cleaner in use to.

Within reason if you are sensible with your rings you can nearly always in my opinion go much smaller than the generally held view. Why not buck the trend and challenge previuosly held beliefs what's it going to cost you.

Mo I sense I may have been a bit proscriptyive here so I apologise in advance if I ruffle any feathers anyones feathres. It is a view and just another for you to consider before going ahead

Regards Mike OLiver

Mike,

THANKS for your thoughts. No, I don't mind at all. In fact, the more the better - we're all learners here.

I do think you are right. I just strapped on a micro spincaster with a TINY little starting eyelet (Zebco 11T) on a UL right. I am absolutely amazed how far this thin casts - given that the guide is equivament to a size 10 about 1/2 inches away from the spool! So, I am rethinking this guide size and will test it out.

Thanks again!
Mo

Hi Mo

That's great you tried it out and got interesting results. I forgot another limiting factor even with UL and that is the line test. You can pop light lines quite easily when loading even quite light actioned rods and with surprisingly light lures. One way around this of course is to use the modern gel spun braids where you may be able to get 10 lb test in braid compared to 2lb test in the same diameter as for nylon monofliament. Ok You could use a shock leader but that for me is messy and should not be necessary with UL fishing. The knot joing light lines to heavey can fail at quite low pressures. You will find that the braid will load up your blank easier too as it has typically only 5% linear stretch compared to the average nylon at 25 to 30% and transmits bites soo much better. IT's a different ball game with braid.

Tight lines

Let us know how your finished rod fishes as that is for me the most important aspect.

Regards

Mike OLiver

Mike,

THANKS. Yes, we do currently use 10 lb test braided. The claim is 2 lb diameter but we think it is really more like 4 lb diameter. We're using Spiderwire stealth which may be the thinnest 10lb out there. Then we use a 2 lb leader. We never attach line to line, but always use a metal swivel or small connector to avoide the line to line. Works great.

Thanks,
Mo