Was just wondering how those of you who do complex weaves and what not on customer's rods go about getting paid for your time invested. Obviously, this is way above and beyond the "normal" straight build and can have as much time invested as building the rod itself. Like Jim Upton's dragon taking 90 hours, you could never do something like that for a customer unless he wanted to pay your wages for two weeks of 8 hour days, correct? So do these types of wraps make it to customers or do they stay on the rodbuilder's personal rods?

Phil

Phil; I've never had a weave take that long before but do have one guy that wants a rod as a collectors piece. He really doesn't care how long it takes to get it and doesn't seem worried about what it will cost. But that was before the 90 hour job. My feeling is that most rods done on that level will be few and far between. However having said that there are plenty of people around that can afford it. They just have to want it.

Jim

What I do is just build it into the price of Labor. I also will not build rods WITHOUT "complex" wraps - if people want a plain rod, I tell them to go somewhere else. I will not adjust my labor rate down, so if they really wanted me to wrap them a plain rod, they'll still pay as if I "Decorated" teh rod like a X-Mas tree

Grip inlays are different, I charge appx $100 for a butt grip, and $150-$175 for both grips. Average time = 10 hours+.

For me, if I charge more than tht, I will have even less customers (not a bad thing right now), so I have to weigh - do I want to build rods soley to put money into my pocket, or to enjoy myself? If I charge too much, I will never get to do what I enjoy, but when I do do what I enjoy, I end up not getting paid what my time is worth.

In my case, I find everyone likes them, but not all are willing to pay for them!

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

Doug's experience is very common. Give a customer the choice between spending $100 for a nice butt wrap or weave or upgrading to SIC guides or something like that, and he's going to go for the performance upgrade nearly every time (if he'll go the extra at all).

For builders who really want to do these wraps and sell them, Billy has probably taken the best course - they come standard on his rods and are factored into the selling price.

Otherwise you have to find that small handful of customers that Jim talks about - those who can and will pay extra for something they really like. Generally these guys are more than just guys looking for a really good fishing rod, they're sportsmen with an eye on owning something unique.

Back to Phil's original question on pricing. I used to charge by the inch for decorative wraps. $10 per inch for any open wrap and $15 per inch for any closed wrap. Weaves were $100 for one color, $200 for more than one color. I was pretty fast on thread wraps so I could make decent money at these prices. Keep in mind, however, that I'm going back 10 years when I was building rods for sale. I'd charge more these days. (And something like Jim's new weave couldn't possibly do him monetary justice at $200.)

Even then, I'd say that less than 1 customer in 20 opted for any sort of decorative wrap. But, they're great sales aids for your personal rods that you use for promotional or demo use. Once a customer is convinced that you can do that kind of work, he's more apt to buy a rod from you even if he opts not to have you do any sort of decorative wrap on his.


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2005 09:21AM by Tom Kirkman.

How do you guys find people that will pay that kind of money? There are very few people that I deal with that will pay the extra price for the weave. I only add $75 for a simple redfish or trout weave but most people won't pay that much. The ones that do think it is to cheap for all the work that goes into it but those people are few and far between.
At $75 I am making less than minimum wage and I will not do it any cheaper even though I truly enjoy weaves. Most people don't understand that you can buy a rod off the rack cheaper than I can buy the same components for. As a matter of fact I don't understand it.
Enough of my griping. If I didn't love it I wouldn't do it.
Good wraps
Capt. Pat Helton
patfatdaddy

Hi Pat dont have much time because I am getting ready to leave town but thought I might tell you how things came together for me in the weave business.

I would say that the thing that helped me most get people who will pay for the hight end stuff was doing the larger sportfishing shows. They are pretty pricey and it took a few years to get things rolling but they seemed to get me the bigger customers. Then when I landed one of those he would show his new rods to other buddies and it grows from there. Also It helped to have a big display of weaves I could do. And finally, if you do a show, set up a weave and be doing it in front of people so they can see how delicate and time consuming it is. That helps when you hit them with the price.

Long super high end weaves like Jims Dragons arent sold every day, but some easier and faster fishing related patterns are once you break through to some people willing to pay. Then it can snow ball. Pricing is up to you. I wont put a fish on a rod for less than $150 for some of the less difficult fish and have found that $300 is about where people start having problems with the fancy stuff. Still I have sold several action weaves for $400 to $500. Give them a price and hold your ground. If they really love the weaves they WILL come back. Good Luck.

Bottom line is you wont get rich doing this - you just have to love what you are doing.

Hope that helps. I would have emailed you direct but you address is hidden.

Billy, never thought of building rods and including the complex wraps or weaves in the base price of the rod. Hum, something to think about.

I have started including a simple initial wrap on the last several rods I've built and haven't charged any more for them than what was quoted for the build.

Doc, I've also been thinking about a display of the different weaves I have laying around. I've been showing customers the patterns I've got on graph paper, but think it would be alot nicer to display the finished wrap on a piece of scrap including trim wraps and finish. Once the wrap was done epoxy it to a board of sorts to display them.

I just need to find out where to get the pieces for doing the weaves. Thought about using painted and epoxied wood dowels.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

I use short pieces of blank to do my test weaves on. I can then finish them and keep them for display if they turn out, like the Dragon Head. If they don't turn out I just cut them off and try again but it hasn't caused a problem with getting a rod done on time for someone else because now I do practice weaves on my travel lathe so I'm not tying up the bench lathe.

Where to find "rich" customers. DEpends where you live. I'm in NY, so it's not that hard. I'm a terrible salesmen though, if I was able to @#$%& my way I could get double what I charge (if I had the time to wrap). You have to focus on location - where is the money where you live? Up here, if you fish certain ports, you can get a lot of money for a rod. Fish 6-pac boats, get a couple of rods to the captain, guys paying $300 for a day of fishing 2 tiems a week won't have a problem laying down $$ for a stick.

I found the better a salesman you are, the more you can charge, for doing less work. Just tell them how great you are, get your name known, and people ignore obvious flaws that rodbuilders pick out - misaligned guides, epoxy up to the guide ring, gaps between cork & reel seat, poor quality cork - the list goes on and on.

"epoxy up to the guide ring, gaps between cork & reel seat, " Hey, you trying to call me out? Hehehe. Still trying to figure out some of those issues.