Hi Gang,

Several days ago I posted a question about applying Klass Koat over Flex Coat to get a smooth finish. I’m having problems with Flex Coat High build. It’s leveling ok but I’m getting lumps/bumps in the finish. It was advised that the problem was that the Flex Coat was to cold or needed to be heated to be sure that everything is liquefied. I’ve done that by microwave 10 sec each time & hot water and still getting the lumps/bumps in the finish. I suspect that I may have a possible bad bottle of finish. I will be contacting Flex Coat to see if they have any ideas on this problem.

I maybe opening a can of worms here but I would like to know what brand epoxy finish you use and why you like it. I’ve mostly used Flex Coat but thinking of trying something else. If I changed I’m looking for something that is thinner going on and a longer drying time would be ok also. Also a big factor is smell. I have only 1 lung left that’s working so I have to be careful about odor. I love Klass Koat as a thread finish but can only use it when I can open windows w/fans running and as I'm tpying this it's snowing and coming down pretty good. I knew I should not have goofed around the boat last weekend.

I just put the 6th coat on the butt section and it came out great except for those lumps/bumps.

Thanks a bunch Gents & Ladies

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

I have used LS High Build for a long time and love it but recently have been using the Epoxy Coatings 1 Coat available from Binghams. (For more info, do a search on 1 coat or One coat). The stuff is idiot proof and I've never had such smooth/level finishes! Turn by hand every 10-15 minutes for an hour, turn on dryer and forget it

Mike

Mike,

Is that Gudebrod #840? Use to be called Speed coat.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Try not putting on so much. And after you do apply it, don't turn on the drying motor right away. Let it set till you see sags on the bottom. Wick those off with your spatula/brush, then turn 180 deg. and do it again. Heep doing this until you get no more sags, then turn the motor on and let turn. I use Flex Coat high build and this is how I do it. Great looking finish. Just tips I've picked up here that work. Also warm the bottles before you mix, not the mixture itself, heat will make the mixed epoxy cure faster.

Bill in WV

Hank,
What do you mean by lumps? Are you wrapping over uneven thread, like an open wrap? Or is it more of a sag problem? If it's over an open wrap, no matter how many coats you put on, it's going to be bumpy unless you basically fill in the open areas first, either manually (finishing the blank areas only on the first coat) or mechanically (credit card or other long straight edge to scrape it all off at the level of the thread, or apply heavily, sand level, then recoat. Self levelling is a bit deceiving to me. Finish will follow the contours of the wrap, no matter how many coats you put on, without a bit of care. It's possible to get a glass smooth finish over an open wrap with one coat, as I've seen it done by people with 20 years experience over mine own. However, I think there are only a handful of guys who can do this. It takes a lot of rods to figure something like this out.

As far as different finishes, I learned using FC high build over 20 years ago, as that's all I knew existed, and after some growing pains, I've stuck with it in cold, hot, dry and humid, in standing air and near the furnace intake and I have no problems with it that I don't create myself by a bad application, usually too much if I'm in a hurry. I've never heated it beyond putting the syringes in my pants pocket for a while before applying during cold weather. Around last year, after reading about the virtues of LS supreme, I've been trying it repeatedly with disastrous results. Bubbles, sags, poor levelling, creeping, wicking.... pretty much the same trouble folks who use LS supreme on a regular basis seem to have when they try using FC!

I think that once you learn how to get the most out of your finish, it's very hard to adapt to using a different finish. They all have their own characteristics. I apparently am incapable of using LS supreme, yet some folks swear by it and can't get anything good with FC. I'm getting better with LS, learning what I need to do with it, but in general I'm not happy with the end results. I'm still not comfortable enough with it that I will use it on a paying customer's rod.

Many coats of Permagloss is another good option for some but I would not recommend it to you. I have no sense of smell (literally..some sort of wiring problem) but I can detect fumes. Permagloss drives the family out of the room I'm in and it makes my eyes water at times. For you, I would stick with the epoxies and figure out what works better in your hand and keep at it. I have a no mix finish that I haven't had the opportunity to try yet (compliments of the old man Putter) but I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about it. Time will tell.

Binghams! That's the no mix I was talking about. Thanks Mike for the reminder!

i've been using flex coat lite for the past (first 5 fly rods). i just used flex coat high build for the last fly rod.

you're getting lumps and bumps. all around? or like a bump in one spot? i got wavy finish on my first rod. i chalk it up to taking way too long to apply the whole rod. i then went back and tried to brush on/touch up the earlier wraps and the finish had already started to thicken.

are you new to rod building? if so, perhaps you're spending too much time in applying it. i saw a custom rod builder epoxy over the weekend and although i've sped up my technique (haven't had those bumps round and round the blank like i did the first time) i am not as fast as he was.

this last rod, #6 with the first use of high build, i put the new bottles in my pants pocket and wore them while i surfed on the web a bit. when i was ready, i used one of those credit cards that come in the mail as frequently as i used to get AOL CDs. i cut a strip about 3/8 an inch wide and dropped the epoxy from above with it, and then used the plastic as kind of a scraper to remove extra epoxy which flowed to the bottom (you can imagine i put it on somewhat thick). i worked pretty fast, with the aim to only put on a thin coat. with the Lite formula, my first coats showed the texture of the thread. with the high build, i saw the thread texture less, but it still resulted in a thin coat.

i also let the rod sit for about 10-15 mins, rotated 180 and allowed it to sit for another 10-15 mins, then i turned my 6 rpm dryer on and left it overnight. it is flat as can be. room temps were about 68-70 degrees F.

i think i read somewhere that microwaving the epoxy sets it faster, so you may be making it worse for you.

mix, let it set for 2-3 minutes for bubbles to rise, apply quickly and thinly, do not go over it too much with a brush. flex coat has some very useful tips on their web site. check it out. i have a tendency to skip over things. after all, i know it all, riiiight? ;-) read the fine print and follow the directions. flex coat works well like all other finishes. when something goes bad, it's usually in technique i've gathered.

eric
fresno, ca.

Mick,

It's little white specks that's in one part of the mix. You can see it while mixing. It appears only after the two parts a put together. Did some testing yesterday and no matter what I do I can't get rid of the flakes. It's a new order of Flex Coat not something that has been setting in my shop. The Gudebrod #840 one part epoxy works great. I've used it on fly rods & quick repairs but I'm leary of using it on saltwater rods. There is no saging in the epoxy. Before I put on this last coat I sanded down the old finish and had a very smooth blank to apply a new coat onto. I use a mechanical mixer to mix my epoxy and have hand mixed a test batch yesterday and still having same problem. Never had a problem Flex Coat before. It's not like this is my first rod. I heated the epoxy because of the replies I got from my previous post of a couple of days ago.

Thanks for your input Mick, I'm going to contact Flex Coat tomorrow to see if they have any ideas.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Mick, That not a no mix epoxy. It's a 2 part One coat epoxy. Try it, I'll bet you fall in love with it
Hank, This is called One Coat and is made by epoxy coatings and distributed by Binghams

Hank, please let me know what you find out. I've never noticed flakes with FC. A bad batch maybe? This is getting very interesting.

Mike, talk to me baby! I thought this was a single part finish. What is a good mix ratio in cc's?

As already stated, heat will speed up the setting time of epoxy. This doesn't just apply to the already mixed epoxy. It also applies to the separate bottles before mixing. Be careful how hot you get them if you microwave or boil before mixing. Actually they shouldn't be 'hot' at all. Room temperature, or just above, should allow the epoxy to flow from the bottles easily. If the two parts are hot in the bottle, they will still be hot when mixed. This will greatly reduce your working time & pot life.

Jay

Mick,
I usually mix at least 3 cc's each but you could go less if you're using accurate syringes. Let me know what you think of it!!

Mike