I've gotten several suggestions on how to balance my Dan Craft FT 1008-4 that I'm building , with the major suggestions being;

- do not add lead weight to the butt
- use a heavier reel instead.

The Orvis reel I'm going to use weighs 9.2 ozs (today) with line and needs 1 1/4 ozs of lead in the butt to balance the rod. If I mount my Ross Canyon 5 that weighs 10.6 ozs with line, the addiional 1.4 ozs still does not balance it. I believe this is because the additional 1.4 ozs is on the center line of the reel which is exactly 4" from the butt end. When I use the lighter Orvis reel, the lead inserts are "spread out" along the last 4" of the butt and not concentrated in one spot. If I were to balance the rod with just a heavier reel, it will take something even a bit heavier than my Canyon 5.

So why would using a much heavier reel be a better option than just adding lead to the butt that would give a lighter overall weight? Thanks.

Tim,
There are a number of things that you can do in addition to using a heavier reel that are not as crude as adding lead to the butt of the rod. For example: use a down locking reel seat to get the weight of the reel back as far as possible; use a little longer cork so that your hand (the fulcrum) is a little farther forward; use as light a guides, wraps, and as little epoxy as possible.
Plus how heavy and how well balanced a rod will feel in use is a function of a number of things in addition to the static balance and static weight of the rod and reel. There is the weight of the line, the inertia of the line and the rod, particularly the forward or tip end of the rod, even the rods action is going to have an effect. Almost all rods are tip heavy from a static point of view but they do not all feel tip heavy in use.
I would sure suggest that you do some test casting with the rod before you start adding lead to the butt end or at least try test casting both with and without the lead in the butt.
You have no doubt heard the old expression about a person having lead in their butt, well in my judgement it is about the same with a rod.

Tim. It doesn't sound as if your fighting butt is very long if the center of the reel is 4 inches away. You need about 4 inches of fighting butt to cast the rod two handed. You might consider a wood grip and fighting butt for the extra weight you want. Even burl will add some additional weight behind your casting hand/fulcrum. An extra long foregrip allows you to shift your hand upward for better balance, doubles as a fighting foregrip, and allows a two handed cast with both hands ahead of the reel.

Tim,

The Dan Craft blank your speaking of weighs around 2.4 oz and is 10' long.....When built perhaps around 6.5 oz

You are considering using it (to the best of my understanding) as a fly rod with both single and two handed capability.

I have built many switch rods, and do use Dans 10 ft. FT blanks for this application in wts. from 5 to 10.

The largest capacity reel that one would need for heaviest 10' FT <> With a mid length shooting head or short belly spey line of 400 grains (head weight) with running line, and backing : Would be a 10 wt wide arbor reel.

Most of the reels required would be comparable (as an example) to a Lamson Litespeed 3.5 which weighs 6.5 oz

I have just weighed mine with full line in tow, including 12' of T-14.

It weighs in at around 9.2 oz and is a perfect balance on both the 8 wt and 10 wt FT 10' .

When built as a switcher, the reel seat would be typically mounted starting at around 4" up the blank. The upper grip would ideally be around 9.5" to 10.5" long the lower 3.75 to 4.25" long.

One must remember that to balance a rod to be used for two handed delivery correctly, you should simulate the aproximate point of balance with at least 2/3s of the belly out of the rod...Beyond the tip.

The dynamics of line delivery are not accomplished with all the line on the spool, nor should the balance be determined with all the line on the spool.

There is absolutly no need to add any additional weight to your described reels for a 10' rod, especially one as light as Dan's FTs.

.....Actually quite the opposite <> If anything I'd opt for the lightest reel that you can mange to use that will easily hold the line best suited to your targeted switch rod deliveries.

The heavier reel weight that you describe would easily balance a typical 13'6" 7/8 wt two hander with the rod alone weighing around 9 to 11 oz.....And this with a tip heavy rod.

Bob Meiser

I must have not included all of my info when I statred posting about my FT 1008-4 rod balance problem. I have (11) Frorecast single foot guides wrapped but not finished on it and the full wells grip and reel seat have been glued on already. I didn't want to build this as a two handed rod that's why I only have a short 1 1/2" long fighting butt.

I was looking for a balancing alternative to boiling off the reelseat and cutting off the grip. If I want to save the current grip then either I reduce the number of guides currently on it now, or replace all of the Forecast guides and the tip with something like PacBay TiCh single foot snake guides. I've done one of my best jobs ever in wrapping and adding trim bands that I'm reluctent to remove anything but I still want the rod to be right when I'm finished. But maybe my best option is to concock a full wells grip a little logner than what I have now. Thanks anyway.

Tim,

I'd just finish the rod as you started it....And go fishing....!!!

It's going to work just fine.

Bob Meiser

Here's another approach you might try. I have two rods that are a touch tip heavy. Not Much. They actually balance well if I grab the handle toward the front 1/2 but I don't rather I tend to grab the back cuz I cast better there....... So I stripped alll the line and backing off my reel and put one spool of the lead wire that fly tiers use on the reel and reinstalled the backing and line. So far it seems to have solved the problem. You could add more lead to the reel and remove it all easily if you don't like it. I have found that longer rods are tough to balance

Tim,

Im not an expert, but I had a similar problem to you. I built a FT 1008-4 last fall as a single-hander for coho mainly. I managed a pretty good balance w/ a burl cork grip, and a heavy burl myrtle reel seat and butt from Les Frielborg (butt is ~ 1" and not attached). I Use it with a Galvan T-8, which I think weighs about 7 ounces. The rod can cast a mile.

Anyway, I had been regretting not building it as a switcher ever since. I also had glued everythin up with Rodbond, so boiling it off was not an option. I was playing around with the rod down in WA last December throwing single and double spey casts very well with the rod, even with the one inch butt. So....I just emailed Dan Craft and ordered a second butt blank section for $18! Finished the second grip about a week ago with a 10.5 inch foregrip and 3.75 inch rear grip and a Batson A8 seat. Feels very nice with my Galvan reel. I havn't fished the new grip yet, but Im sure it will be sweet. The only worry I have is that I might have to move some of the guides around b/c the stripper is pretty close to the foregrip on the two-handed butt section, but I'm going to wait and see how it fishes first.

Ray

I'm going to have to apologize for any misleading information that I described in requesting help in balancing my FT 1008-4, so I'll try to give more facts. I am not building this rod as a two-hander. I am not building it as a switch rod - I just wanted to know about switch rod guide spacing. I have a 7" full wells grip and Struble U-18 reelseat already glued on, and an unglued 1 1/2" long Sage fighting butt. I have only wrapped the Forecast single foot ceramics and since these are much heavier than traditional snakes, "I think this is what's causing the rod to be tip heavy". I just want the rod tip to be above horizontal with the reel that I bought for it.

I don't want to destroy the grip that's already attached and I don't want a grip that's a foot long. I don't want a 4" lower grip either. The help I was looking for is how much further I could space my guides out to help balance the rod naturally? And could I drop from 11 guides to 10 guide without putting excess stress on the blank?

In the a couple of days, I'm going to try to space out my existing 11 guides first. If that doesn't help, I'm going try to come up with a 10 guide spacing plan. If that doesn't work, I'm going to pull the ceramics off, throw them in a drawer, and order some PacBay sf wire snake guides - they're a lot lighter! If that doesn't help, I'm going to glue enough lead in the butt to balance it and go fishing. I don't mean to be rude, I'm just not getting the right direction I'm looking for, and I'm sure it's because I haven't explained everything properly. Thanks again.

Tim,
I doubt that you will put undue stress on the rod by dropping from 11 to 10 guides. The increase in stress should be in the ball park of 10% assuming that you have spaced the guides reasonably well. Dropping from 11 to 10 guides is also not going to solve the balance problem that you feel that you have.

You say that you have not received the direction that you were looking for. I do not see how you could get much better advice that you received from Bob Meiser. He is an expert fly rod builder and I would listen to his advice.