Ok I'm finally getting serious about building my first spiral wrap. My question is what size guides do you recomend? It will be a 7' med action rod using a Curado 200 reel with 20# mono. Also I know that low frame guides are the norm for the transition guides but what about the ones on the 180? Do you still use low frames or should I go with high frame spinning guides? Thanks for the help.
Paul

Gads.....I'm on that frequency as well. I went to search for acid wraps, and am presently checking them out. [www.rodbuilding.org]

I'd use a low frame doublefoot 12, #10 single foot fly, 2 ea #8 fly, and the rest #6s to the #6 tip. If your making it into an inshore rod that may have to pass the knots of a bimini twist or shock leader than larger tip guides will probably be necessary.

Your 180's are the transition guides. As Spencer says, single foot flys from the transition out are perfect. Regular U frame double foot guides like Fugi's or Forecast will work well for the transition. Nothing wrong with a high frame spinning guide, it's just that you will most likely not need it.. On a 7' rod the turn should be easily made with three guides. For 20# line I'd stick with a #7 ring for the small guides.

Also, check any knots that have to go though the tip top and make sure they fit

I asked similar questions here & on other boards. More experienced builders have suggested starting with a higher frame and move to lower framed guides.

Most recently I asked for a recipe for a 7' saltwater live bait rod. It was suggested that I use an MNSG, LNSG, NSG, and LSGs. I'll probably run the 180 LSGs in size 8. Right now I'm thinking about a two guide transition at 60 & 120 degrees set 5-7 inches apart. I also might throw in a UNSG just for kicks and possibly a more progressive look.

Jay

stick with low frames, double foot for the trans in sz#12@0, #10@60 , #8@120, and then #7's on out
then adjust the transition guides with a loaded rod to keep the best line path and line off the rod.
RB

You can also go a #12 high frame if you need more room for the foregrip
I like Rodert's set up, it is more of a straighter line path

Just to add some spice to recipe's above, I have been using Fuji Alconites in 16, 2 x 12, 1 x 10 in the transition and then size 8's out to the tip. Most of the spirals I've done at the moment are used for Barramundi rods and South Australian Snapper rods. The larger stripper and transitions allow for longer, heavier leaders and bimini's to be used without causing any problems with knots. These are a must for the bruiser size fish up North in the Territory.

Mark: My curiosity has the best of me. How long are the rods you are building with the 4 transition guides and what is the offset of that last 10?

Paul

Just finished my first spiral on a 7' bass/pike rod. I used a 12, 8, 8 (double foot) into a single foot 8 then 7's on out. I used only 3 transition guides at 0, 90 and 180 degrees. I did opt to use double footed on the first three guides since these are at the heavy end of the rod and get more abuse in the boat. I typically use braided line in the 30# range. Rod casts very well.

I would suggest taping some guides on and do some test casting.

IMO you don't need any transition guides. There is a better way to do a spiral. I think Tom is going to run my article on the how-to in the next issue of Rodmaker. Sorry to whet your appetite but I probably shouldn't spill the beans.

Well you got to go under the rod, around or though?

Drill a hole through the blank and run the line straight off the reel to the underside? LOL

Jay

I hope not !!! I'm sitting here trying to figure this out --- fishing line is controlled by the use of guides,
Come on what else could one use????? Hope your not talking about those line though blank type blanks??

Hey come up with a SiC lined tube and I bet that 'hole through the blank' trick would work reel slick!

Jay

Grant, I have been using the Revolver (Foreham) style. My stripper is on the 0 axis but slightly offset. I then go through the 60, 120 and 180 with the 180 again offset. I have also been using single foot and double foot guides for the remainder but nothing less than an 8 unless the rod is for light freshwater. The blanks I have been using are in the 6, 6'6", 7' category and typically in the Mag Bass tapers. I have also been using quite a few Sabre E-glass 196 and 197 blanks for the Barra. They are heavier and very robust. This is a must when fishing in this type of country where getting "smashed up" can mean anything from busted up to breaking rods. For me, the transition from top to bottom can still be smooth even if I'm completing it in approx 12". The offset between each transition is approx 60 degrees. I find it easier to start with my stripper and 180 guides taped on first. I then tape on the 60 and 120 guides in approximate positions. With a little playing around you can get them almost perfect. Tape on the 180 guides and run a static deflection test. That is the time to play around with angles. This works for me and I'm sure I will still play around with other techniques. All we can do is be open to suggestion and use trial and error. Less error is good.

Let me clarify something on my post above: I said that I used 3 transition guides. That number includes the butt guide, the 2nd guide at 90 degrees (right side as I am right handed) and the third guide at 180 degrees under the blank. Technically, I suppose I used only one small transition guide; the one at 90 degrees. I made it small to keep the line close to the blank. It could have been a single foot to get the line a little closer to the blank but as I said, this area can get some hard knocks in a boat so I went with a double foot.

How does the layout of the transition guides relate to a conventional set up? In other words, is there a progressive spacing of guides from stripper to tip? Is there a rough guideline one could follow to get approximate spacing on these transition guides? Is it feasable to set up a rod in the conventional way, do a deflection test, and then tweak the running guides from 0* to 180* and manipulate the last three guides between 0 and 180?

I usually start with a conventional spacing running guides under then move to the top. Then under pressure adjust guides to match the line. I use fly line, easyer to see.
I like th O'Quinn way, cause he takes the streaghtest line path