I know it's not a good thing but what exactly are the down falls of the line touching the blank?

Thanks,
Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2005 07:00PM by Steve Parks.

At least a couple things are wrong with it. Greatest stress is between any two guides. The farther apart they are the more stress on the rod blank. So in a situation where the line is down on the blank it could be sign that your guides are too far apart. Also I have seen lines part when under great stress and they got down and rubbed the blank. Maybe this isn't a problem on freshwater rods but on heavy saltwater rods you can bust a line this way.

One other thing. You'll ruin the finish on your blank if the rubs it enough.

I would imagine that under heavy load it would also generate plenty of heat.The guide manufacturers spend lots of money to make a hard surface that offers the least amount of resistance and also to dissapate heat.Heat is an enemy to fishing line(hold a match to it).It would also effect the feel when a fish is being fought(was that the line on the rod or did the fish brush the line against an obstacle?).Thats my 2 cents for what its worth.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Friction is the problem. Regardless which direction the line is travelling, contact with the blank creates unwanted friction and reduces overall performance. Shorter casts, higher tension on retrieval and wear in places where none should be.

Steve,

What are you refering to?? Continuous or almost continuous line touching the blank or occasional line slap.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Friction --> Abrasion --> Heat --> Weakened Line (Nylon Mono Filament) --> POP! ... With a conventionally wrapped rod whose guides are too far apart, and if the line is along side of or even below the curve of the loaded blank, when a fish switches sideways runs on you, and the line passes from one side of the blank to the other, rubbing alongside or jumping the hump under a tight drag, you can hear it ping like a guitar string, waiting to find a nick on the rod blank and then just go "PING", good-bye fish. THAT'S the problem, IMO.

Some people also feel that it contributes to the rod's tendency to want to roll-over under the heavy load. How much it does that is hard to quantify. The fact remins that ANY conventionally wrapped rod will have an increased tendency to roll-over with an increasing load. If the line has dropped below the curve of the rod blank, it is no longer sitting perfectly on top of the rod blank and the pressure on the line has begun to find a lever arm on the guide ring, and it will exert a torque to flip the rod over in the direction that the line has dropped.

This is not anybody's imagination. Anybody who has had to walk a beast of a fish around a boat, especially under and over other lines, knows that when there is only one hand holding your rod, for that split second while switching hands, that stick wants to spin like a crankshaft now that your grip is only one-handed. Only if the rod is pointed straight at the fish is this flip-over force minimized. The weight of the reel still wants to roll the rod over, so that the reel will sit under the rod. ... Okay, I think that covers it, ... -Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-

To answer Hank's question I was referring to line touching the blank when under a load. I was just wanting some opinions on the matter when I go to our fishing club meeting trying to explain why a spiral wrap rod is better. I know they are better and I want to convey that to a group of folks who have not seen a spiral wrap or think that because of it's weird looks it must it's not any better.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve - That is not good at all - As these other gentlemen have already stated - If the line is touching the blank under a load the guides are to far apart and can result in damage to the blank. As Cliff has stated Friction --> Abrasion --> Heat = POP

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Steve,
In additon to all the reasons stated above I caution that if braided line is used you can anticipate even more damage due to its abrasive surface.

I suggest bringing the back issue of RodMaker Magazine which covers Spiral Rods to your meeting. I don't recall the precise issue but that is easy to find on the Rodmaker web site as noted in the margin at the left.

Better yet would be to prepare two blanks even temporartily by taping some guides in place; one in the conventional way and the other in a spiral configuration. Run a length of line from the butt end of each through the guides and apply pressure. Let the folks feel the difference under stress. Nothing is as convincing as a hands on demonstration.

At some point in the process of the rod bending, the line is going to touch the blank. I don't think you can avoid it entirely unless you place so many guides on the rod that it would be impossible for the line to touch.

I go for a happy medium and try to attain a good arc. I also locate the smallest guides adjacent to the tip guide within 3 to 4 inches of each other because I figure that is where I figure the line and rod shouldn't be touching. But I didn't spend too much brain power on that design in case anyone is willing to show me the error of my ways.

Many of the local saltwater types around here seem to like the rod that runs the line completely through the blank, without guides. Which means the line (braided dacron) is in touch with the blank 100% of the time.

Patrick Vernacchio

Steve posted:

"I was just wanting some opinions on the matter when I go to our fishing club meeting trying to explain why a spiral wrap rod is better. I know they are better and I want to convey that to a group of folks who have not seen a spiral wrap or think that because of it's weird looks it must it's not any better."


Steve

Why don't you evangelize them by example rather than by preaching? Build yourself and a buddy some spiral wrap rods and use them. When the individuals in the club ask about these weird rods, then tell them about the theory and the advantages. Maybe loan them a rod for a day to try. Let them decide for themselves. Just remember it won't be the end of the world if they stick to the old set-ups.

For articles on / directions on spiral wrapping, you can go to the RBO LIBRARY, then look up the first article, "RodMaker Magazine Index Vol. 1-7". Open & use the edit feature FIND = SPIRAL. Articles on Spiral Rods in Back Issues of RMM are: 6(5); 3(5); 4(2).

"Spiral Wrap Transitions", Vol. 6 (Issue #5), by Tom Kirkman, p.24-31.

"Spiral Wraps for Casting Rods", Vol. 3 (Issue #5), Ralph O'Quinn

"The Revolver Rod", Vol. 4 (Issue #2), by Rich Forhan.

Go to [www.rodmakermagazine.com] to order back issues. $7 ea.

Tom Kirkman's book "Rod Building Guide" also has information (p.30).
Dale Clemen's book, "The New Advanced Custom Rod Building" (1987), p.197-200. Either book is available from the Sponsors of RBO. -Cliff Hall-

P.S. - Dave Gilberg's advice is tops. Braid is like a wire saw. The braid may not pop when it rubs the blank, but the rod finish and outer shell won't last. Demo rods will prove to the Doubting Thomases what the preaching is all about. LOL, -Cliff Hall-

As Dave suggested, I quit trying to just explain the reasons for spiral wrapping and started loaning out my personal rods to those who were interested. For most, once the've fished them, its much easyer to have a conversation ( without arguing opinions ) concerning the differences in spiral and conventional wrapped rods.

As of right now, I have three rods on loan. Heck ones been gone for about a month and just keeps getting passed around.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds