I'm building a rod for our fishing club to be raffled off. Most of these guys have never seen a spiral wrapped rod and the ones who have seen one look it as weird. I would like to hear the benefits of a spiral wrapped rod so that when I present it I can make a presentaion on the benefits compared to a conventional rod. I'm no speech writer so any info and help is much appreciated.

Assuming your quarry is going to be underneath the rod, i.e., the water, pond, lake, etc., any load placed on the rod from that direction will try to pull the line underneath the rod. With the guides on top of the rod, the line will attempt to twist them around and underneath the rod. While it's doing that, and whether or not it's successful, it will also cause the rod to twist or turn in your hand. Most people don't realize that they're actually expending some energy trying to keep their rod upright, but they are.

With guides already on the bottom of the rod, the load on the line won't cause the rod to twist - everything is already where it wants to be.

There are several ways to demonstrate this. We'll have a dynamic display of a spiral wrap and a regular guides-on-top rod in Charlotte that people can play with and hopefully understand the inherent disadvantages of all guides-on-top rods.

..............

See "How do I make a rod stable under load?" in the FAQ for a start.

Steve,

Most people don't see that conventional rods and reel was a poor innovation to fishing. The reason I say this is that the reel, guides & line are placed above centerline. With reel above the centerline the rod naturally wants to trist to the bottom by a little thing called gravity. With a rod under load the line also wants to go to the bottom. Spiral wrapping a blank runs the line to where it wants to go anyways (on the bottom). This is why spin cast & fly rods have all components below the center line.

Some people say the a spril wrapped rods will cast farther but I have not found that, but you do not loose any distance. My last statement is from my own experance. We build mostly inshore rods mostly for trolling so these blanks are not casting distance winners.

Like Tom said there are several test you can do to prove that spiral is better. Hope this helps.

It's funny you don't get much of an argument on this site regarding sprial wrap but on other sites it quickly turns into a fist fight. There must be people here that knows a good thing when they see it.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 05:03PM by Milton (Hank) Aldridge.

I agree with ya Hank. Myself, I know that a spiral wrapped rod is WAY better. I just don't know how to convey that to a group of people who have no idea about it. I don't see any greater distance in my rods but I don't see any loss either. I build mostly inshore rods for Speckled Trout and Red Fish.

Steve - your email address is hidden - could you give me your email address

Hank

I will change that. I didn't know it was hidden.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve,I built a couple of spirials last year and boy did I catch%^&*&* for them>"What were you drunk" was quoted most often.Not that I deny having a few beers while I relax at the wrapper but I had to make believers out of seasoned fisherman.Bottom line I put the rod in their hand and let them fish it.Mostly drifting for fluke and fishing for sea bass off the Jersey coast.after a full day most were suprised that their arms didnt hurt from pulling fish all day due to the fact they werent fighting rod twist.My 76 year old dad had me spirial 3 of his favorite rods after he experienced the sensation.For the younger guys it may not effect them much to fight the twist but to the older and weaker it will.It is also a truley custom rod at this point due to commercial builders not cashing in yet.Build it and raffle it,dont be surprised when the winner asks for another or maybe one for a friend.Take pride in the fact that you supplied a rod that may change either one or several persons thinking about how to fish.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Hank,
There is at least one nay-sayer that posts on this site that does not believe that spiral wrapped rods have nothing but advantages and no disadvantages. I am one who believes that there are no free lunches. There is a price to pay for everything including spiral wrapped rods. I think that they have advantages in some applications and have disadvantages in others.

What is the disadvantage of a spiral wrap in any situation???? I've fished them for years and never had a problem. They don't twist, the rod doesn't fight you like a conventional rod does and they just make the whole fishing experience easy.

This argument seems to come up every few months but I've yet to see anyone prove any actual on the water disadvantages to a good spiral wrapped rod. They just plain work like nobody's business.!

Steve,

I've been working on a new method for spiral wrapping. Tom helped me with it at the Charlotte show last year and after a full year of tinkering I think I've come up with a much better spiral wrap system than anything else. No I won't take all the credit since Tom put the basic design in my head, but I have written an article that he is going to publish in Rodmaker soon. Next issue Tom?

It got me thinking that the term "spiral wrap" is really incorrect. The line doesn't spiral around the blank, it just passes by it on one side in a straight line. Think about it.

The beauty of this is that it is so much easier to set up and the transition guide has zero line pressure on it. It's there only to keep the line from rubbing the side of the blank. That's all it does there is no sideways pressure on it anywhere at any time or under any load.

The article will have some diagrams and photos that I think will help. Not hard to do but a little too much to describe here without the use of photos. Hang tight.

Mike,
Arguing a spiral wrap versis a conventional wrap is a little like arguing religeon or politics There are some that do not want to look at the facts and want to argue what I would call dogma. There are no doubt advantages in some applications but there are also disadvantages in other applications. I do not want to start the whole discussion here again but if you really want to know what some of the disadvantages are send me an e-mail and I will give you a list of disadvantages that you may not have considered.

I had my own epiphany on the physics of rod torque & spiral wrapping only recently. For more on the physics, read the following Thread: [www.rodbuilding.org]
Otherwise, Tom Kirkman's summary explanation (above) will likely be the most useful description for satisfying ~ 95% of the curious who are looking for some rationale for spiral wraps. The entire Thread [Spiral Wrapped Rods 11-21-04] has 38 Posts and is really worth the read.

Re: Spiral Wrapped Rods Cliff Hall 11/22/04 02:37AM
[http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,121935,121979#msg-121979]
"ROD TORQUE & SPIRAL WRAPPING" -

It would depend on what you want to call a disadvantage. If you're using the term "disadvantage" to mean things that will cause you actual problems while using the rod or problems that could damage the rod in some way, there simply aren't any. And the rod will fish, much, much easier than a rod with guides on top. When you come down to it, it's almost correct to say that a rod that has had guides wrapped on top has been built incorrectly and will have actual disadvantages that you can actually see and feel in use. Will it damage your rod to put guides on top as people have been doing for 100 years? Not usually, but it can and sometimes does, yes. Will it damage your rods to put the guides on the bottom? Not at all - that's where they want to be.

Most times fishermen really need to see a demo in order to understand why guides should be on the bottom of the rod. I'll take some photos of the new demo device I've built for the Charlotte show and publish it in the magazine. It's easy to build and will make a believer out of most open minded people. Of course, you have to understand that some will always find it odd looking and for that reason may not be willing to switch to it.

Bill (William) has alluded to a spiral wrap method that I won't spill the beans on until we get to Charlotte. There are many ways to allow the line to skirt the side of the rod but there is one that is definitely better than all the rest. Even Ralph O'Quinn has conceded that it may be a better method than the one he spent so much time developing. Best of all, it's simple and the transition guide has no lateral force on it - you could put it on the rod with a rubber band and it would never shift or move on you even when the rod is under full load.

...............

I personally feel this IS the place do discuss the pros & cons of this, or any other, rod setup. As builders we "should be" open minded and take everyone's thoughts and opinions to heart. If there are those that feel the spiral wrap is a disadvantage in certain situations please let us know. I believe this will only broaden our thought concepts.

From following threads on other boards I can say there are many who don't like spiral rods at all. The majority say you're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. There are those that think spiral wraps are only for ultralite rods and you lose all benefits when you move to heavy tackle. These are the opinions of others...I'm still experimenting and forming my own opinions. Although I will say after a while experimentation does become expensive.

Jay

I just glued up the reel seat,the fore grip will go on tonight and the spiral layout was to be started tomarrow.Of coarse you now have me drooling for the new set-up so I will have to wait.Will there be a hand out at Charlotte on this method???Now I will have to make the trip.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

@#$%& John,
I just clicked on the site and it didn't show much for arguments sake.It didn't even show how under load the line could rub on the blank.
PS.I tried the spell check from iespell.com and it worked. Check out my latest post for the correct site {spell check download ?}
Mike

There are some who feel the spiral wrap has some disadvantages, but so far they have not given us any actual proof of such or how it will supposedly harm a rod or impact you while fishing.

With the guides on top, there certainly is a problem and it's not hard to prove that it does exist. Next time you hook up to a fish, open your palm and let the rod rotate freely - it will spin upside down. The force required by the angler to prevent this from happening will vary depending on the size of the quarry, but the rod will spin upside down in all cases, unless you do something to stop if from doing so.

................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2005 01:16PM by Tom Kirkman.

What will you accept as proof?

The line coming off of the reel must travel through a slight arc to get to the tip. It can not go through the center of the blank. Because it is not traveling in a straight line there is a loss in momentum, the loss is small but it is larger than that with a conventionally wrapped rod. The loss will result in the spiral wrapped rod not being capable of casting quite as far as a conventionally wrapped rod. The difference may be very small but there is a difference. I would call this a disadvantage.

The line travels in a slight arc because it is forced to by the guides, the transistion guides. There will be more force on one or more of these transition guides than is the case on the guides on a conventionally wrapped rod. As a result there will be more friction and another loss. Again the loss may be small but it is a loss and again will result in a spiral wrapped rod not casting quite as far as a conventionally wrapped rod. Again I would call this a disadvantage.

Here is a thread from a week or so ago in regards to the Acid Rollers being used for Giant Tuna fishing off Hatteras, NC. I'm NOT getting into the Acid Rollers arguement , but I did pose a question to all the Nasayers to come up with ONE SINGLE negative, and one guy did. Granted, long posts, lotta fighting - but teh post made towards the bottom of this page by HungryJack has a list of 4 negatives, plus I added one of my own.

[www.noreast.com]

Little background - HJ ha had spiral wrapped rods since the mid-80's, totaling 6 out of about 50 customs. I have no idea who built them, how they're set up, etc, etc - but this is what he has experianced in fishing - he's a Pin Hooker and fish's a heck of a lot, and is VERY opinionated so let's try not to post and provoke him or anyone else (lol), unless you're into Internet wars like I am, lol.