I have always used 5 minute epoxy when attaching a tip-top on the few rods that I have made. But was wondering if I could use U40 instead, since it is already mixed when I am attaching the handle to the blank?

You can, but should you ever need to replace the tip-top, you'll have one heck of a time removing. The required heat may be enough to damage your blank.

.......

Go to an archery shop and buy some hot melt insert glue. The deeper the amber color the better. There is no better tip top adhesive.

What is the melting point of hot melt glue? Jay

Darned near every one of them (brands and different use types) has a different melting point temperature. Some melt at car interior temperatures with the sun shining on them and also on the defrosters (ice fishing rods). I've had some brands of this adhesive come loose in these situations; not a good situation for a custom builder. It's the reason I've stuck with 5 minute epoxy, which can be heated and the tip removed if carefully done with no damage to the rod blank. The tip won't come off or loosen under the above mentioned circumstances with 5 minute epoxy.
Putter

This thread just happens to be very important to me at present. I had a guy deliver 7 offshore tuna sticks to me for repair and five of them needed tip replacement. Four of the rods were Penn and three were custom Chaos. Four tips popped right off which were attached with hot melt. The other three were a little bit more difficult. I broke two of the blanks when I accidently twisted the tip top trying to heat and pull and one came off eventually without apparent damage. I am going to put the new tops on with the Flexcoat tip top adhesive. I use this material exclusively on inshore rods and have had absolutely no problems.

I would appreciate some information on the following. If Mr. Anderson or Seiders would comment I am sure all of us could improve our product.

1. When you heat the adhesive to the melting point is the temperature of the surface that it is going to be applied to important? Does it bond to a cold surface or should the blank be slightly heated?

2. If the tip top is oversize should the thread layer go all the way to the end of the tip top or should some of the blank surface be exposed to allow contact with the adhesive.

3. Does using the five minute epoxy instead of longer curing time versions improve the chance of the tip coming off before blank damage.

4. Are there any "secrets" other than getting the proper amount of adhesive in place during installation of a tip top. I really want to do the best job with the stuff that I can on the heavy duty offshore stuff.

Thanks Gon Fishn

What's the best method of getting the adhesive inside the tiptop tube?

Bill in WV

I have heard that this new tip adhesive has a higher melting point than most. It would also be nice to know a few of the regular brands of hot melt and their actual melting points (also the temp inside a parked, not running car in 100 degree sun).

Putter

Yep that was my point in asking the question about melting points. I also only use 5-minute epoxy for all my tip tops. I don't have to ask how to use it or wonder if it's going to hold...it's always there. Apply it and forget about it.

It would however be interesting to know the melting temps as well as the aformentioned car interior temps (July or August in NC on a sunny day...about 1pm).

Jay

I hope to be all over this subject by May, when it gets so hot in Gainesville, FL in my black car that you could suffocate inside 10 minutes, if not bake your brain inside 20 minutes. I know that this doesn't help much now, but I've been asking all these same questions myself. I think I'll buy some brands of hot-melt glue that report a melting point, buy a candy thermometer for the dash board and one for the rear window, and jam some black blank stubs up there with black tip-tops on them. Then we'll see which ones survive the car oven, which should reach 140-160'F in the hot-air wedge where the glass and dash come together. The highest melting point that holds the tip under torture conditions but still can be removed by dipping in just-boiled water (212'F) will win my vote of confidence, if there is such a beast. LOL! Until then, ... -Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-

P.S. - Razor shavings or slivers of hot-melt glue can be put into the tip-top tube before heating to ensure the glue is where you need it before heating. Also, laying out thin threads of hot glue from the gun onto a glass sheet or tin foil will also produce nice strands to stuff into the tube before inserting the rod tip.

And here's a look at the subject from inside the tube: "Be the glue, ..." mantra.
It doesn't take a thick layer of glue to hold it together. But the action of sliding the tip into place tends to wipe the glue off the blank if the fit is a bit too tight. Ideally, when you slide the tube over the rod tip, some glue should get extruded out the back end of the tube toward the ceramic guide ring. This is excess and is good, usually meaning there is still plenty inside the tube. You can wipe off this extrusion with a tooth pick LATER. Just let the hot-glue harden. After it cures, flake it off with a toothpick, or cut it off with an X-acto razor knife (like a pointed scalpel). If you use a powerful epoxy like ROD-BOND (I don't), you may need to GENTLY swab the glue off before it sets. You just don't want to wiggle the tip & pump out the glue in the joint. DO NOT USE a LIQUID solvent cleaner to wipe it off. You might wet the joint with it and ruin the bond, and getting the hardened glue out of that little tube is a real pain. And don't wiggle the tip into place - that will just push the glue out of the tube. You can twist it a bit, but don't wobble it around like a spinning top about to fall over (precession?). (I never thought about how many little details there are in all this until writing it down!)

PUTTER (Randy Parpart) wrote on Oct. 25th, 2004 in an e-mail to Cliff Hall:

I've heard the new Flex Coat glue works good for tip tops. I haven't tried it yet, though. I had problems years ago with the stuff I was using and switched to the 5 minute epoxies, Cliff. I eliminated all problems by doing this. It's also nice because I can buy this stuff locally instead of ordering it. The only thing other rod builders have against this is that it takes more heat to remove a tip top glued on in this manner [epoxy] and they've used too much heat or kept the heat in one place or underneath the tube and wrecked the top 3/4" of the rod blank.

To solve this problem, I've always grabbed on to the bad tip top with a plier, keeping a lot of "pulling" pressure [NOT twisting] on it while I wave a lighter back and forth slowly on the side of the tube of the tip top. When the temp is right, the tip top will pop off. I've never damaged a rod tip yet doing it this way, but I am very careful to pull hard and not put the heat in one place or use too much heat. Sometimes, having another person (my wife) hold the other end of the rod helps, but I usually just trap it between my legs while I'm doing it. ... Putter