Following suggestions from this site, I picked up some Gudebrod 811 CP for the first time and gave it a try. Straight from the bottle, it was extremely thick and didn't appear to be giving me the penetration that I wanted. The directions say that it can be thined with alcohol. By accident (a slip of the hand), I ended up with about a 50/50 mixture. Initially it seemed pretty thin but after some thought, it was about what I'm used to with the "other" brand and decided to give it a try. Actually, I'm very pleased with the results but am wondering what you folks do with it. How thin is too thin?

Don't thin the water-based ones at all (milky, like Flex-Coat) or limit thinning of the solvent-types (like Gudebrod) to no more than 10-20% added volume of denatured alcohol. (No less than 80% of full strength.) That's the standard advice.

Some rod-builders have success they are happy with using lots of deviations from these constraints, but I'll let them speak for themselves.

However, at least one guy swears that: "The only thing I have found that will keep wraps near "off-the-spool" color is Varathane crystal clear Diamond, blue can." -Steve Bohrer [12-11-04 12:19 ... Re: cp turns garnet dark].

Hi Dale,
Fancy meeting you here.... probably see you at the Jan Fed Meeting. I just ordered some 811 also, have not tried it yet. From what I have gathered here, thinning translates to diluted, IE; after the thinner is evaporated, you actually have applied less CP and it may not be enough. Let me know how your wraps fare after the finish is cured..

Joe Barnett

It will penitrate better when thin IMHO But do not go to thin or you will have to put on many coats to get good coverage. Try it the way it is said on the bottle. You don't want to put just alcohole on??

With a 50/50 mix, you're actually putting very little color preserver on your wraps - you're just applying alcohol (or water) and neither will seal your threads. They just evaporate.

You should be able to get by with about 10% to 15% thinning of the 811. The newer Glass Coat Professional Color Sealant is a similar formula to the 811 and is somewhat easier to manage and apply.

..........

A follow up to my original post. First of all, thanks to all of you who responded. Sounds like just a little thinning (80/20)is the best for this product. To answer a couple of the questions. This was using Gudebrod dark green size A thread (with silver trim rings) on a St. Croix green SCV blank. I had accidently gotten a little too much denatured alcohol in the mixing cup and the consistancy ended up very similar to the "milky" stuff I've been using for the past 2 or 3 years. The initial application turned the thread extremely dark but within a few minutes, it started returning to the original color. I did put on several more applications, not waiting for the original to dry completely. After drying overnight, I put on one coat of Flex Coat Hi Build and the end result was better than anything I've ever done before. The color brilliance is remarkable - even better than when first wrapped. I think I'm a convert. For Joe, the wife is making me take her to Las Vegas for a winter get-away so I'll miss the January meeting. Maybe March?

I Thin my CP811 10 to 15% alcohal and apply 2 thin coats let dry. Then apply a drop of water on the wrap and look for a color change. A color change well mean you need more CP, also I apply my CP with a soft brush and work it in to thead threads with a spatula.
Good Wraps Bob

Dale R - I do think there is such a thing as applying too much Color Preserver (CP) because: (1) Not letting either type of color preserver dry adequately before covering with your thread finish (epoxy or solvent / evaporative) can lead to a poorly curing finish or a hazy cast ("fish eyes"?). (2) More than 3 coats of Color Preserver may be too much. If the texture of the thread is completely smoothed over by the CP before the thread finish is applied, it seems the finish can lose its ability to adhere to the CP. At least that happened to me on one of my earliest surf rods. A planar discontinuity, not a fissure cracking. I had no other explanation. IMO, -Cliff Hall-.

Not trying to be a wise guy here, but honestly I gotta ask. What is the point of thinning CP if you are going to put two coats on instead of one full strength?

To me, that's like adding thinner to primer for two coats instead of one full coat before you paint your living room.

Because it will penitrate better. You can over do it. Got to find the happy medium