Alright I thought I'd give Permagloss a try for my thread finish on a small spinning rod. Application couldn't be easier, but after a couple of coats it wanted to build up along the edges of the thread leaving a long valley in between. After my fourth coat I thought maybe I had built the valley up semi-level with the edges and left it over night. I woke up this morning and the wraps looked like they had chicken pox! Small bubbles everywhere. I had not noticed this during or between any of the four coats I had applied. To make matters worse this rod is/was to be a Christmas present for my dad. I did what I could with a razor & sandpaper then applied a coat of epoxy. It doesn't look worth a darn. I am considering stripping the guides this afternoon even though I HAVE to leave town by Friday morning.

Lesson Learned: Don't experiment with a late running Christmas present.


Jay

Good luck, sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.

If it will ease the pain at all I made a mistake on the X-mas present rod I am making too. I have always used darker or metallic threads so I have never used CP. I actually liked how it made some of them darker without it. Well, since I wasn't thinking and all, I made my underwraps on this rod with a nice bright yellow and then used a dark brown on my guide wraps. It didn't take but 3 seconds for me to start cursing myself when I touched the yellow with my epoxy. So, instead of a bright yellow I ended up with a translucent golden color. Now that it's pretty much done (one coat left to do over my decal) I actually like the way it turned out. It is for a young kid, in his school colors (brown/gold), so at first I thought I wanted it to be bright and vibrant. Now, in hindsight, it looks pretty classy.

Pretty much lucked out but I'm still recovering from my heart jumping up in my throat!

Hi Jay when I put on any finish I use a spatula with a little pressure. I also pay attention to the bottom of the wrap for excess globs. I then remove those by moving mt spatula in a horizontal direction (one way) starting at the tip foot and moving towards the ring. As for air bubbles after I have mixed the finish I pour it on a flat peace of foil, let set for a few minutes and exhale on any bubbles. If I am not mistaken PERMAGLOSS is made for rod finish and was not intended for a thread finish. HAPPY HOLIDAYS. I was going to send you a email, but it says you have a hidden email address.
Good Wraps Bob

I use a lot of permagloss as thread finish. If you recoat to soon after the previous coat the solvent forms bubbles in the finish. I always wait a full 24 hour between coats. The first coat is a heavey flood coat and subsiquent coats are much lighter.

The only time I've had problems with PG was applieing too much , and not letting it dry completly . I use light coats , 1 an hour in a warm room . If you use light coats an hour is plenty of time in between coats , the thicker the more problems you will have . That is my expierence with it , and I love the stuff. JD

I've only used Permagloss once and I was impressed. I waited 1 hour between thin coats and didn't have any problems with bubbles or bumps, although as I look at the rod now I do see a very slight build-up on the edges of the wraps. I will deffinately use it again on my light fly rods. It's very easy to work with, but the fumes are a bit unpleasant and probably not very healthy.

That is the only bad thing , the fumes . I have used PG as a first coat on all of the fly rods I build now . I find that it is very easy to get the strait edge on the thread ends with a fine brush , and it fills the tunnel well and neatly .A coat of LS after an hour, and your done . Nice low build and cristal clear finish .....classy. JD

Got Fish ?

I pretty much only use PG on underwraps or as a top coat on my Flex Coat. I've used it all on its own on a lot of experiments and haven't had this problem, but I've always waited at least one hour between coats.

If you've already used 3 coats, I have a suspicion that the faults were already there and you just didn't notice them, or something changed on this particular coat. Were you handling the wraps a lot before this coat, contaminating them with oil, or change brushes/thickness of finish/pressure on the brush, etc??

The stuff is pretty easy to work with, if you have the time. I have no sense of smell (literally) so while it doesn't smell bad to me the fumes will still get to you. I kinda think I like it actually. Course, maybe that's cuz I like to hear the wife complain about the stink that I can't smell. :)

Nope no handling between coats. The rod stayed in the dryer the whole time. I did enjoy using it though. Extremely easy to apply although this may be one of my downfalls with it. I seemed to want to put on too much (I'm used to epoxy). I did catch a few drips in the process. Thin coats seem to be the key...just enough to wet the wrap? I also waited an hour or two between the coats. The puzzling part to me is why the bubble appeared overnight and not during the 5-6 hour period it took me to get the 4 coats on? Oh well live & learn. I'll use it again I'm sure...but not before lots of experimentation on a scrap blank! Thanks for the help. Jay

Hello Jay
Sorry to your having a difficult first time with Pema-Gloss.
What happened is that your application was to thick (heavy) with inadequate cure time before the next coat. The surface of the Perma-Gloss coating hardened before the solvents dissipated.
I know this does not make it any better for this application but hopefully it will help in the future.
Apply the first coat thinnly and use just enough to saturate the threads and let it cure for 12 to 24 hours. After the first coat has cured adequately you can apply additional thin coats allowing each one to cure 6 to 12 hours. The best results are obtained using thin coats.
On most rods it is necessary to apply 6 to 7 coats to threads to get a smooth finish ie, not feel the threads and have the depth look finish.
Perma-Gloss is a very tough finish and will last a good long time. It is much tougher than epoxy. If you want the threads color to come through always use color lockfirst. Allow a day for the color lock to cure before applying Perma-Gloss to be sure and have a crystal clear finish.
If I or Ralph can be of any help please contact me at the above email or write directly to Trondak using the email found on the sponsors listing.
Merry Christmas and hopefully we will meet in Charlotte.
Joe Kassuba

Thank you Joe. Your information will go with me and be used in the future. After smoothing what I could and applying a coat of LS this morning I have decided to keep the rod as it is. It isn't a complete disaster, but certainly not work I'm looking forward to putting my name on. The wraps are nice looking though (well if you look past my botched finish). I wrapped SiC guides on a GUSA blank with Teal nylon & no CP. I inlayed three single threads of Teal metallic (Sulky) separated by single strands of the nylon about 12 threads into the wrap. After the nylon turned translucent the metallic stands out with just enough shimmer to be noticed. I really can't wait to use the Permagloss again after further experimentation. Again, thank you so much for your guidance. Happy Hollidays. Jay

I stand corrected when I said Permagloss was just for rods. Follow Joes instructions and you can't go wrong. I meet Joe last spring and his knowledge on the Trondak U-40 products is super
Good Wraps Bob

I agree with Joe the only thing I do different is to apply a very heavy first coat. I put it on so that it almost drips off and the rotate the rod for about five minutes. The stuff wants to build up at the edge of the wraps and the heavy first coat help combat this problem. I got this technigue from Ralph O'Quinn. The first coat has to cure for at least 24 hours.

Couple tricks I learned:

1. Wear a respirator while applying (Home depot sells them for around $30 w/ replaceable filters).

2. Many thin coats. Like any other varnish, at temps over 70dF, it dries quickly. I usually wait 6-24 hours, but I have all the time in the world.

3. Don't use CP, but understand that it doesn't really matter. Not sure about this statement since I've never experianced it.

Joe, I noticed in your above post you recommended waiting 12 - 24 hours after the first coat, and 6 - 12 hours between subsequent coats, but the instruction on the bottle say to "air dry one hour between coats", which is what I have done in the past. Which is best? Thanks.

I use it from time to time i love it.Just go slow with lite coats and wait a hour our so between coats amd it will be the cats meow.


PS:Good Things Come To those who wait