When finishing the guides, I am finding it impossible to get a nice smooth finish on the entire surface of the wrap. I have several bumps and protrusions on just about all the wraps. These are not the "tuck" under ends of the wraps or bubbles in the coating, either. I am as diligent as my eyes and the magnifying glass will allow at ridding the guide of lint and micro pieces of dust, but I still get the bumps. I WANT A SMOOTH FINISH!!! Whats the trick?

I am using the flex coat lite. If I used the thick coat stuff would I have better success?

One more question--
Whats the trick to getting a accent wrap with as little loops as possible. I am down to 6, after multiple frustrating attempts, but I can't seem to figure out how some guys get it down to two or three without the ends just popping out from underneath?

Thanks ahead of time, you guys are a valuable source of information evertime!

Domenic

There was an article on narrow trim wraps in Rodmaker Magazine. Vol 6, Issue #1. Covered both single-turn, and multiple-turn trim wraps. You can order back issues if you don't have it. I use a method similar to one of the methods in that issue (but start it differently) to make free-standing trim bands with as few as 3 turns. Basically, tape the pull-through loop to the blank before you start the wrap, then when you pull through you have tag ends on both sides which can be pulled in opposite directions, but at about 45 degrees relative to the blank, to tighten the wrap up. It can then be moved easily into position, and trimmed just before snugging up to the main wrap. Rarely flies apart, and when it does it's my fault.

I have the same question Dominco. I think that I am getting micro fuzzies on the thread itself. I like a 00 thread, but can only find this in silk. Flaming the wrap gently did not seem to help. I am currently trying 2 coats of varnish to smooth out the surface and fill the thread grooves prior to applying an epoxy paint. I have found that sanding the varnish leaves sparkles of abrasive material in the finish, and the bumps can be really small. You can roll a slightly tacky wrap between your fingertips to mash down the fuzzies, but I can visualize my fellow builders recoiling in horror from that suggestion! So what is the solution to a smooth and thin wrap?

Sorry. Domenic.

Hello Domenic,
I'm not an expert finisher, but am usually satisfied with my results. To me finishing is part art and part science. The art portion is your individual style, so I can only offer some thoughts on the mechanics side.

I also use a light formula, but a different brand and find my results are best with three coats. Each coat contributes to the final outcome, though each coat provides its own type of contribution to the final outcome.

My first coat is intended to provide thread saturation only. I don't want to see any epoxy sagging after this coat. It saturates the thread and fills the tunnels alongside the guide feet. I concentrate on eliminating bubbles but recognize that this coat will be repaired and recoated so there may be obvious bumps where thread is pulled through.

I usually don't do much to the wrap between the first and second coat. The second coat provides buildup, but may not eliminate all minor flaws such as burned back thread in the event I pulled too much thread under the wrap and had to severe and burn it back. The second coat should not sag either or start creating roundness lengthwise on the wrap.

After the second coat I really inspect the wraps closely to look for protruding bubbles and other thread bumps. At this stage I use a double edged razor blade to slice off imperfections, always careful to not cut down into the wraps, or to slip and cut into the blank finish. I also try not to touch the previous epoxy coatings to avoid getting oils from my skin on the epoxy finish. I'm trying to avoid fisheyes by not contaminating the previous coating.

Now, for the third coat I am especially careful to not stretch my mixed epoxy too far. As soon as I sense that it's thickening and won't self level around the wrap, I mix a new batch of finish. Trying to stretch your finish to cover just a few more guides will result in unevenness, or bumps, on those final guides. The epoxy just won't flow where you want it to, and will stay put where you placed it with whatever tool you're using to apply it to the blank.

I hope this will be of some assistance.

Jeff Shafer

Domenic, Those nasty little bumps can be anything from bubbles to little fuzzies welling up as the finish cures, but is still pliable. Also keep in mind that unless you are working in an absolutely clean room, dust particles are also responsible. If those things mentioned are a concern, then I would recommend applying CP or a nearly dry coat of finish to each wrap. After curing, I would normally use a new razor blade and slice off any protrusions and have even thinly-sliced off finish to even things out or remove subsurface imperfections or dust particles.
In regards to trim bands, I make 4 -6 turns of the trim thread and then secure it with at least 6 turns of primary thread before I start to clean things up. I usually wind up with 1 to 2 turns of trim thread and rarely have it come loose. I lock all of my wraps with CP, which only allows the trim to come loose if I force it loose.
Patrick Vernacchio

Don Davis, Micro fuzzies may be caused by the too much thread tension or the thread is old or has been exposed to to much sunlight.
I'm sure there are other conditions that my cause thread fuzzies, but, those are some that I have come across.
\Patrick Vernacchio

I appreciate all of your input.

A comment regarding cleaning up the protrusions in between coats. I used a cuticle trimmer and took off the mini-volcano type bumps thinking that when I put the next coat on that the white-ish blemish I created would be filled and disappear, well that reasoning was wrong! It come down a bit, but it is noticeable.

I may try the razor blade technique right after the first coat, but if it produces similiar results and I am going to coat with the spikes in place and chaulk it up to being a newbie to this (which I hate to consider)!

Domenic

IF you trythe razor technique after the first coat, do wash the razor beforehand. Many, if not all, have an oily coating on them to prevent rust...get that on the epoxy and it is likely to pull away and fisheye.

Just want to thank Tom Doyle for emailing me that tip on the trim bands a few months back... Its the cats meow!
I have only used LS supreme and have had no problems, except when I attempted heat and created bubbles ??? good stuff.

Domenic, Fresh razorblades tend to create a clean slice. Cuticle cutters tend to pinch and are far less sharp than any typical razorblade. Covering up the spikes isn't against the law. The rod-building police won't come looking for you on the banks of your favorite fishing holle. But, dealing with imperfections during the rod building process is part of the experience
You can also use an emory file to grind the spikes down if a razor is not suitable or available. The scratches they produce are easily covered light a light coat of finish. I assure you that removal of any blemish from the first coat of finish produces far better results than just trying to cover them up with more finish.
The likelyhood that someone examining your rod with a casual eye would notice a blemish is almost nil. And your rod will probably fish just as well. But, you will know.
The problem with trying to covering up with more finish is that the blemish might be highlighted rather than hidden. It is also better to get into the habit of cleaning up your work early rather than trying to remedy a mistake later on.

PS., And Joe is correct. It is a good idea to wash the blade. Just make sure you cleanly rinse it as well.
Patrick Vernacchio

Joe Avary,
Great suggestion to wash the razor blade to remove oils.

Domenic,
Set a high standard and work to attain it. If you use a razor blade, use a double edge blade (much sharper than single edge). Hold one end of the blade with your thumb and one end with your middle finger. Press down on the middle of the blade with your forefinger, creating a curved blade edge to slice off the protrusions. The next layer of epoxy will only do so much to resolve irregularities with the prior coat, so don't slice too deeply but do remove the bumps to as level as possible.

If you're doing three coats slice off thread nubs after the second coat, that way there is enough epoxy surrounding the thread nub to hold the thread in place to slice through. Sometimes if you do this after the first coat, the thread lays down and the razor doesn't cut through it.

Good Luck,
Jeff Shafer

Domenic,
I've fought the fuzzies, the dust, Murphy's Law, and all the minor and major screwups that bedevil perfectionist rod builders, and at 77 I've finally recognized that the ONLY time I pay any focused attention whatsoever to my rod wraps ... is when I'm wrapping and finishing the rod. After that, when I'm fishing the rod, it's as though they no longer exist. Even my fishing buddies forget all about those pesky imperfections commented on during their thoroughly sadistic examination of my latest failed attempt at rod building perfection.
When was the last time you seriously examined the rod wraps on an old favorite rod? When was the last time you even thought about those wraps?
At one point in my total frustration, I remember seriously considering finishing rod wraps with Mayonnaise. If you get desperate enough to try it ... let us all know how it works.

Earl Milliron

Like I stated before, you guys are the greatest source of expertise a newbie could find. Should I expect anything less, I THINK KNOT (NOT!)! heheheh

Thanks again--I finally broke down and paid the big bucks for the Rodbuilders subscription. It is an investment for you (and me). Chances are, it'll keep me from asking so many questions for you guys to have to answer. Or, will it create more?! We'll see about that later.

Thank you thank you thank you!
Domenic Federico

I also use double edge razor blades but I break them in half prior to using them. Trim tag ends after the second coat of finish.