I asked this same question back in Jan of 2003 and I haven't really gotten any better at it almost 2 years later! Usually I finish the lower section and ferrules with two coats but the smaller wraps in the upper sections are normally finished with one coat.

Should the first coat be perfectly smooth over the wraps or should it be so thin the thread wrap gooves aren't filled in yet and is a bit "nasty" looking? I don't like using CP and I need to saturate the wraps a bit to get "an even color soak thru". I saw an response where someone pulls off as much epoxy as possible after the first coat.

I use a toothpick to fill the guide feet tunnels and apply a straight edge of epoxy at the end of the wraps on the blank. Should these steps be done during the first coat or the second?

I've learned how to level the epoxy on the long logo areas of the blank satisfactory and figure it's a matter of time before the thin first coat application finally dawns on me. Thanks.

Tim Collins

You'll get lots of techniques and approaches but here's one to consider that gives you the dark soak thru color you want and very easy, repeatable results for perfectly smooth, flat wraps.

Make your first coat of epoxy and put enough on to just soak and darken the thread and fill the tunnel. Let it cure for a day and trim anything that isn't laying flat. Then put on 3 or so coats of Gudebrod 822 1 part rod varnish until the thread texture is gone. Perfectly flat wraps every time that are dark, tunnels are filled, and end result is smooth as glass.

With practice you can get this effect with the first coat of epoxy but this is a surefire way to get it every time even if you aren't good at applying epoxy.

Tim,

It depends on how much work you want to put into the epoxy. For the best results for me, I put on one coat where I will dab a brushfull and let the rod turner turn the threads into my brush to wet the threads. Put on enough that it will soak through the threads. At this point I also fill the guide foot tunnels, but not worry about my edges. Do that for all of the guides on the rod and any other wraps. Before it sets up but after they are all wet, I go back and remove most of the finish I just put on. Take it down to the threads. The threads will stay wet and the tunnels will stay full. Let the rod dry. You'll find that even with your best wiping, there are still areas where the epoxy has started to cover the threads and not just wet them. Come back with a second coat the next day. This coat is where I take my time with the edges and get the right build. You don't need a lot of epoxy at all. I will goop on a bit on the center of the wraps where I know it is too much (but not WAAAY too much) and spread it around to wet the wrap below. Then I go back through with a lighter and heat the new epoxy until it thins and starts to sag. Then I just touch the brush to the sag and the extra finish comes off. I do that once or twice for each guide.

That's how this guide was done:

[www.fishingphotos.net]

Thanks,
Rick

I prefer 2 coats of Varathane varnish that just about fills the thread groves, 1 very thin coat of epoxy to finish. I like Klass Kote epoxy paint for this. The completed wrap is only slightly more built up than the original thread and glass smooth.

Rick, how do you remove the epoxy. You say wipe. Are you wiping it with a dry paper towel?

Tim, Pulling off the epoxy sounds like a response I would have written. But from what you are describing, it sounds like you are on target. When I first started, Eric, the guy running the shop, instructed me to apply the first coat with just enough finish to soak the wrap. When it dried, the individual wraps could still be felt, the finish soaked through, and the wrap was covered with a hard surface of the finish. His way of thinking was that is easier the trim down any nubs without affecting the wrap strength.
Then, by applying the second coat, all voids in or along the wrap would be filled, resulting in a nice, thin, and smooth finish. Since that time, I only apply a single, but heavy coat to all wraps, including the inscription area, and pull off the extra by wicking it away with a brush and a little help with the heat from an alcohol lamp.
I don't lose sleep if a wrap or two end up a little thicker than others. I've either sanded it down or shaved it with a new razor, and apply a thin coat of finish

Sean,

You mean on the first coat? I use the same brush that I put the epoxy on with. I'll wipe the heavy off the brush onto my foil. As you take it off the wrap and onto the brush, just brush it onto the foil.

The only time I use a paper towel is makig the wraps even on my edges at the end. I'll use a paper towel soaked in denatured alcohol, doubled over, wrapped around the blank and slid right down to the finish edge on the spinning rod.

Thanks,
Rick

Thanks

You say "fill the guide foot tunnels". Is something special you do to accomplish this?

I messed with two and even three thin coats and IMO one good coat of high build (not diluted either) gives the best results. It took me a while to be able to judge the difference between enough and too much. I try to put enough on so there are no thread marks showing, but not too much that it won't level evenly.

Al,
Before you apply your finish, you placed the rod vertically in front of you and with a needle, round toothpick or something similar you put epoxy around the guide foot thread tunnel area with the tip of said instrument. When they are full then you put on the finish and put it in the dryer. If you don't fill these areas water and dirt will get in there and ruin things. It also helps anchor single foot guides a little so you can't pull them out of the rod as easily if you use rod boxes and are prone to snagging the guides on insertion and removal.

If I'm looking to get a light build I use a first coat of Perma gloss on all of the wraps . I fill the tunnels and do my edges at this time . The PG wont "fill" the tunnel completly on larger guides , but on fly type guides it's fine . The PG is fluid enough to get good penetration and I use a fine brush on the ends of the wraps . With some sort to steady rest for my arm I'm abel to make a good line at the edge of the thread . The second coat is either FC high or light , or , I like LS regular for fly rods . 1 top coat of the 2 part usually covers the guides fine after the first application of PG . Butt wraps and inlays are a different story and may take another coat .
That's my method , and once you find somthing that works good for you every time , stick with it . That's the fun of this , but it can be annoying . Good luck . John

John
I was going to respond to this thread but you have for both of us. A first coat of Perma Gloss solves a lot of problems and provides a base for a one coat finish with light or high build epoxy.
Stan Grace

Stan , I picked up that tip on this site some time ago , it realy is a great method for flyrods in perticular , but the concept works for anything. Exeptional penetation and low build without 10 coats of PG. John

Some great ideas here. However, if you just want to deal with just the epoxies, and are hellbent on really getting those extra-fine finishes that are so hard to find as well as extra tough, the first coat should be so thin that it doesn't even show up after being dried. The second coat shoudl look like the threads are a touch "oily" when dried. the third coat should start to look like most rod crafter's first coats. Personally, if the client is using just really light tackle and pretty good with taking care of their tackle, a skilled rod crafter can get away with one coat and make it look just stunning. I think all of us have done this on several occassions. On heavier tackle, is using multiple coats, one can apply as many as eight coats to reach the desired effect.