I'm building a 7' SCIII UL for my son using red metallic thread for the wraps and silver metallic for the inlay bands. When I pull the tag end of the red the wrap through with the pull loop, the metallic covering strips off of the inner core, leaving just the strands of the nylon to trim off, which is a pain to do without leaving a burr. Is this caused by wrapping too tight??
Thanks, Murf

Hey, Murph, everybody knows rodbuilders are all wrapped too tight!! I do a lot of the metallics and with Gudebrod my little trouble is the metallic sheath unwinding and pulling through after I've trimmed the thread and then pull through trying to bury it.
I guess I'm not sure on this because I don't trim my threads after pulling them through but before.
I think you might be right after thinking on it, though. If it wasn't quite so tight, the whole thread with the metallic still around it should come out. But this could be caused by having too many threads on top of your tie-off loop, also??

Putter

To be sure, I'd ease up on the tension a bit on a practice wrap and see what happens.

Putter

Putter: Thanks for the ideas. I've tried trimming the thread before pulling it through and always manage to get a burr after I pull it through. Ive finally got the hang of trimming it off by cutting it between two wrap threads. What do you figure to be too many wraps on top on the tie off loop? I usually try to have 6 or 8, which, since you mention it, may be too many and be part of the problem. I still have diffuculty determining the proper tension for wrapping guides. I'm going to give some thought to developing some way to measure and adjust the tension of the wrap thread, but don't know what "scale" to use, maybe ounces? You have any thoughts on this?
Thanks for the input,
Murf
I will try a practice wrap with less tension, see if that makes a difference.

As said try decreasing the tension, another thing to try is to decrease the number of wraps you're trying to pull the tag end under.

Lou

I noticed if I put too many wraps on the guide after I put the loop on I have more trouble pulling the tag end thru and it tends to fray a little.
you have to keep in mind, that you are going to seal the wrap and that will hold the thread in place, a super tight tie off should not be needed.

Six is a good number; when I used to do the pull-through-and-then trim technique, I tried more, but had some trouble like you're having. Trying to trim those little fuzzy individual threads is near impossible!! That was when I figured out to put some masking tape on one razor blade and place it up against the fuzzies; then use the other blade to trim them off. I used a magnifying lamp at that time (I used a headband style, now) to do this. With the "back-up" of the extra blade, it held the fuzzies in place so that I could trim them off. A bit of burnishing and I could pull the nubs back underneath.

Putter

As far as measuring the proper tension, I recall seeing some posts about using CCS for this. As I recall, some of the senior members tested and said it was somewhere around 27 - 35....

I have a bag of 35 pennies I use to determine approximate thread tension. Just tie it on and let it hang.
I had the same problem with HT mettallic and I concluded that thread tension was a major problem. the metallic probably increases the friction when pulling the thread through and causes some stripping of the mettallic.

john kepka

John, could you explain what you are doing with your little bag of pennies?

I tie the bag of pennies to the wrapping thread a let it hang over the top of the blank as if I were wrapping. Then I adjust the thread tension until the spool almost moves on its own with the weight attached. This gives me my thread tension. I recall that 35 pennies is close to 4 ounces. I guess you could use sinkers but the pennies seems easier. Pennies were mentioned in some of the Old Posts that I searched. For me the pennies eliminated the "not too tight--not too loose" which for me ended up meaning way too tight to where I could not tweak the guides easily for alignment.. 35 pennies allows for the guides to be moved around a little.

John Kepka

Wouldn't the use of a curved-jaw TOE-NAIL CLIPPER allow you to trim off "the fuzzies" very closely, without the fear of nipping into the main thread? That sounds better than having to use a razor blade and risk slicing the wrap's whipping and springing the entire wrap free. I haven't used metallic threads yet, but a high-quality clipper like REVLON has jaws that close down almost perfectly. They can clip off the least fray. - Cliff Hall -

You are receiving good advice. I would add that if you can find a Sulky metallic thread in a color you like it is worth trying. In my experience it is less prone to unravel in similar situations.

The HT Metallics unravel easily. I've got some Sulky and done some test wraps. I love the thread. It stays together much better than the HT Metallic and burnishes very smooth for a metallic thread. The only problem I have so far with the Sulky is the narrow and long spools it comes on. I wish they came on those short/fat spools. I will be modifying my wrapper to accomidate the Sulky spools as it seems to be a great product.

As far as trimming those little nylon threads left behind when using HT, I have the same problem. You feel you get everything nice and trimmed then you apply the finish and it is easy to see you didn't get it all as nice as you thought. Normally after I let my first coat of epoxy cure for 8-12 hours I take a single edged razor blade and carefully slice off any 'bumps' that appear on the wraps. With the thread finish on them any small fuzzies have now stiffened up and are easily sliced off. Best of luck. Jay

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I am using the Sulky and Madeira metallics much more than Gudebrod anymore. Neither one seems to have the drawback that we've discussed here about the Gudebrod.

Putter

Wow!! Great information from all of you, I really appreciate the help. I'm going to try the Sulky thread for my next rod. I've just about decided my problem is too much tension. I will also try the 35 pennies trick and see how that works. Thanks again for all the help.
Murf/kokehead

The first person to introduce me to Sulky was Stan Grace. His honor sent me a few spools to try. I can't thank this gentleman enough; he is truly a class act. Thanks, Stan!!

Putter

Oops, forgot to include first and last name and my original post.

Anyway, try using @#$%&'s Thread Tensioner. The pressure is applied directly on the spool and not on the thread as on a plate tensioner.

Plate tensioners press metallic threads as they pass through and the end result is often a stripped thread.

Yes, it's the same @#$%& who designed @#$%&'s Acid Rollers.