On a spiral wrapped rod there is no torque on the rod unless the direction of load changes from the 180 axis. Even then it will be minimal because you can only have a fish swim so far to one side or the other. The entire range of possible motion is probably within a span of only 20 degrees to either side.

As far as the transition guides are concerned, their should be no torque on them at all. Remember that a correctly set up spiral wrap locates the line only in the bottom of the guide ring. The line pressure is directly AGAINST the blank, not pulling the guides around it or downward. If you have set things up correctly you can attach the transition guides with masking tape and they won't shift or come loose as the line presses them directly back against the blank.

Randy,
I can understand your logic and I have heard this or simular logic used before but I do not think it is quite correct. I agree with you that about 20 degrees is probably the range of angles to the fish under normal circumstances but that means that up to nearly 20% of the force would be sideways. And naturally this force would be about the same however the rod is wrapped.

As far as the force on the transition guides is concerned, the direction of some of the force will be in a direction toward the rod particularly when the rod is lightly loaded but a small percentage even when the rod is lightly loaded. This force toward the rod is primarily because the line has to basically travelel in a slight arc around the rod. However, most of the force is going to be downward if the load is downward, particularly when the rod is more heavily loaded. The line will tend to move from the part of the guide facing the rod to more directly down as the load is increased and the rod is flexing in the area of the transition guides. If most or all of the force on the transition guides was toward the rod, as you suggest, then when the rod was heavily loaded the rod would pull hard to the left if the transition guides were on the right side of the rod or hard to the right if the transition guides were on the left and naturally it does not.

And please let me say before someone assumes otherwise, this is in no way a criticism of spiral wrapped rods. It is just a discussion about the direction of the forces on the guides of a spiral wrapped rod.

No, the force wouldn't be the same at all. With the conventional wrapped rod the force would be magnified many times because the guides are much more directly opposed to the load. A load on the side of a spiral wrapped rod at 20 degrees would attempt to move the rod 20 degrees, but on a conventional wrapped rod it would attempt to move it 160 degrees. To say that the forces on each rod would be about the same is not correct.

When I flex my spiral wrapped rods very fully, the line on the transition guides is firmly in the bottom of the guide rings, not on the sides. I could probably cut the threads loose and the guides would be held in place by the line but I don't think I'll be doing that.

William,
You are right. The last sentence in the first paragraph of my post is misleading and not correct. In fact, as I read back over the whole post it is not worded very clearly.

Buy or acquire a digital torque wrench (easier to read), preferably in inch/pounds reading. Secure it to the butt of a rod and fasten the handle of the wrench so that it cannot move. Support the rod as needed, but with free turning bearings/surfaces. Two should be all that you require.

Now load the rod by fastening a weight or known load to the end of the line which has been run though all guides on a conventional guides-on-top rod. Vary the angle of the load by resetting the rod in your supports and refastening the wrench at angles that will approximate the span in which a fish could actually load the rod from. Record the results for each angle.

Now with the same load and with the same respective angles, do the same with a spiral wrapped rod. Record those results.

While this will not provide you with the torque on individual sections of the rod, it will provide you with the total amount on the angler. I have several sheets of results from tests run several years ago and the differences between the two types of rods is stunning.

This is an easy and fun test to perform and will, more than anything else, point out the marked difference in forces applied to the angler while fighting a fish with each type of rod.

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Do any of the suppliers carry eye drops?
Putter

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Chia,

Do away with the transition guides. On big game rods, I don't use any and have no problems.

If you do use them, you need to arrange them differently. There is no need for the transition guides to have any real load on them with the rod is under maximum load.

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Continuing - on a rod that is intended for casting, you want a very straight line path when the rod is in an unloaded state. On a heavy duty offshore rod where fish fighting, not casting is the primary concern, you want to set the guides up so that the straight line path is achieved when the rod is actually under what you expect as full load. This takes nearly all the force or pressure off the transition guides.

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Tom,
I was told that by another builder for game rods and tried it. A bigger problem arose. Of the three different variations I did on this theory, the line suffered severea angles near the stripper guide causing faster aging of the line and guide due to unforeseen pressures that I still don't completely understand. To be totally truthful, I'm not completely certain how much the guide was aged during the fights but the mono lines gave way after an average of approximately one hour of heavy fighting. I've been told to switch to the @#$%& acid rollers, but with the amount of experimentation I've already put in and my ever-increasing limitations on how often I can get out to test the experiments, I've given up on the spiral for anytime I expect to do battle with GTs. Perhaps the acid rollers are the answer, but roller guides also produce line wear, just much less than a ring guide.

Also, there comes the casting question as GTs are chased with lures that one casts. So, the rod needs to be able to cast far and fight really hard. In other words, the above solution wouldn't help any for that species. But I'm sure if I experimented more with it and learned from guys much more experienced with it, the viability would be there for big game issues. Thanks for your response, but I guess I didn't provide all the info needed for a good response...My bad. Also like I said, I'm just playing devil's advocate and not trying to start any wars or anything!