Hi all,

I had an interesting rod failure returned to me and I thought I would offer this up for some discussion.

Here are the details:

Blank: All Star BAST845MC (7' Mag Cast Bass)
Guides: Fuji TLSG6J (single foot fly guides, first 4 from tip), # 5 is a TLSG 7J, #6 is a TUNSG8J bridge guide and the rest are TLNSG dbl foot casting guides.

Customer Story:
Rusty was fishing with 20lb mono and hung on some brush. He came back hard to free his lure and guide #4 snapped off where the ring joins the foot. (I can still see the end of the guide foot in the wrap). Guide # 5 has the Sic insert is missing and the Titanium ring is split.

The only thing I can think of is that when he hung his lure, the slack wrapped around guide #4 and snapped it off, then creating a steep angle and a sharp impact to guide #5, popping the insert and splitting the ring.

I'd be interested if anyone has seen anything similar. When I replace them, I believe I will use the bridge guides instead of the single foot fly guides.

Thanks in advance.

Terry

Here's my take. The guides had been damaged before hand. #4 had been bent and had been bent back. You know what happens when you bend metal back and forth. #5 had been knocked about sometime before all the rest of this happened.

Also the customer is an idiot and has no idea how to free a hung lure. Please give him a copy of the last issue of Rodmaker and show him how to free his lure without putting his rod in danger. I'm glad he's not my customer.

Terry,
I would tend to agree with Larry about the guide being damaged before hand, I am not sure that I agree about the customer being an idiot.
I build several hundred rods a year but have never seen a guide frame break unless it was hit on something or bent several times. I suspect that in your case the guide had been bent and straightened a couple of times. However, I used to get a lot of the inserts coming out. But that has not been as much of a problem in the last couple of years.

Terry,
A week or 10 days ago there was a string of posts about guide failures with Fuji titaniums. There were even some photos posted. I don't know if you suffered a similar mishap but you might want to do a search here under "titanium"... As I reall Billy40 (Billy Vivona) did the photo posts if you want to check the photos.

Thanks Larry,

The customer actually isn't an idiot. He's a N. Oregon coast guide turned bass fisherman and buys a lot of my rods. I like to keep him happy.

Since he is a bass angler, I suspect he may have stepped on or bent the guide in some way. I still think that the line wrapped the guide, causing the final failure. You all may be right about a previous event that weakened the guide at the bend point.

I did search the previous posts and considered the discussion on heat buildup during grinding. I use a pair of forceps to hold the guide feet while grinding so this should have prevented any heat buildup during grinding. I use a dremel tool with a glass reinforced cutoff wheel to grind. I do get heat buildup at the point of contact.

Tom K., are there quality grinding wheels you mentioned for dremel tools? Should probably move to this as an extra prevention measure.

Thanks all,

Terry

I don't think the line can pop a guide in half or snap part of it off. You'd break the line before that would happen. Check the line on the reel if you have it. At the very least there would have to be a marred area on it. These things are way tougher than you'd think.

"He came back hard to free his lure..." Okay I concede that he may not be an idiot, but he has no idea of how to free a hung lure or how to treat a rod.

Terry,

Switch to Diamond cut-off & grinding wheels for your Dremmel. A 5 piece set is available from Harbor Freight for only $5.00 plus shipping. Cut and paste this link in to you Address/Location window, then press enter:

[www.harborfreight.com]

John Mantele (aka: @#$%&)

Terry,

I don't consider the guy an idiot, just your typical " Bubba " bass fisherman. I think that most bass fishermen have been guilty of trying to free a hung up bait in the same fashion that he did. I know I have been guilty many many times.

As to why the guides failed, I tend to agree that they had probably been damaged before this incident. Bubba's have a tendency to have more rods on the deck of their bass boat than there is room for, which results in all kinds of abuse to them. Why, I don't know but I have watched many times as Bubba lays out ten rigged rods before fishing a tournamen, then spend more time un tangling them than it would take to cut off a lure and tie another on.

These are some of the reason's that I say, if you know you are building for a Bubba, charge him some extra up front, because you know you will be seeing the rod again for repairs. Why not,this exactly what the major rod companies do.

For what ever it is worth, just one ole man's opinion.

Later,
Gerald Mc

Well said, Gerald.

Bubba Dave

I have pretty much only built fly rods. I use a lot of the single foots. One think I don't like about them is that the line can wrap around the guides. I have seen it wrap 2 at once. Sounds to me like Terry has it right. One guide snapped and the impact when it hit the next one it cracked the ring, etc.

Does not say what line or weight rod. But maybe we ought not to be too quick to say that "you can't break a guide". Obviously it does happen every once in a while. Bad guide from the start, maybe. Or maybe with spider wire or something and a good yank with the line solidely wrapped around the guide you can break one. Sure sounds like it to me.

Anybody that buys a custom rod or lots of custom rods is not an "idiot".

What the heck, he did not break the rod, did he. Obviously he did not pull at too much of an angle, etc. Who has not "jerked back" on one after casting a little too far.