What is the best way to get the effect of a guide wrap rounded as seen on alot of factory rods.My finished wpaps tend to come out somewhat on the flat side,Is it a matter of laying a drip on the wrap and letting it form round on it's own?I've been afraid to try it,

Rich,
You're getting it right. Your wraps shouldn't look like footballs when your done. It's because they have to get enough on in a very fast manner and do it the first time and move on that some factory rods look like that. Look at the work done on some cane rods done by the sponsors on the left, that's how I aspire to make my wraps look.
You should only have enough finish on to protect the threadwork.

Rich. Most of us a trying to avoid that football! If you allow a little finish to run off the edge of the wrap, the finish will taper down to the blank. The wrap seems to swell up from the blank if the thread color matches the blank. Some folks don't want any overrun in case they need to remove a guide.

After the threads are saturated and protected, the quantity is a matter of personal preference so if you'd like a more rounded look, then just add a bit more. I agree with the others though that a low build up generally looks best, especially on fly and light freshwater spinning rods. Then again, Winston buyers are more than happy to pay $600 a pop for the obviously intentional footballs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's your rod so make it look the way you like it.

If someone would be as kind to elaborate on this subject it could possiblly save me alot of grief. I certainatley have not mastered the art of epoxy, some finishes turn out flat and some turn out looking like footballs. I personally like a nice smooth flat finish on my guide wraps, my problem is that I don't know from one time to the next what I might have done differently to get this flat appearance. I use LS Supreme and build mostly surf rods. If I put it on to thin even with two coats you can still see where the finish is too thin over the guide feet so I used three coats and that's when the football appearance becomes very noticeable. What I'm I doing wrong, please help.

Thanks,

Ron. I don't like regular epoxies for the reason you state. Some folks will hold the blank stationary and wick away the excess epoxy from the bottom of the wrap after it is applied. You might want to try 2 or 3 thin coats of varnish as a sealer and then 1 coat of epoxy. This should give you very uniform results.

Ron,

The football effect happens when at any time you put on too much expoxy. If you are doing thin coats, you still need to make sure you do not put on too much epoxy on any of the coats. It may be that you applied too much on that third coat.

Don't let your epoxy set up to long. The thicker it getts the more football efect I seem to have.
Mike

Ron:

You've opened a pretty big can of worms. There are many factors that affect the setup of epoxy, but a couple things that should help you: A good drying motor. I use an 18rpm Flexcoat turner. If I'm doing underwraps, after applying my epoxy i move the rod to a 6rpm. The slower motor allows for a more even buildup on the wrap. Second, the length of wrap. Your wraps will look more rounded if you only have a few wraps on the blank before the thread jumps onto the guide foot. File your guide foot so this transition is smooth. With a factory ground guide there will often be a big jump onto the foot. I shoot for 3-5 thread wraps on the blank before jumping onto the guide. Just be sure your thread lock is on the blank, and not in the guide foot tunnel, or you'll lose your wrap. Third, the finish you use. I use flexcoat lite, and usually do a good finish in one coat, but will often use two. When clearing the rod, I put too much epoxy on all the wraps, just getting it onto the rod. This allows the epoxy to soak through the thread and fill the guide tunnel. In this step I also make a clean clear ring touching the rod. Clear from the wrap won't seep outside that ring, as surface tension holds it back (unless you have a gross amount of clear on the wrap). Once all the guides have clear on them, I go back to the first wrap and apply heat. I use a bubble buster alcohol torch from Angler's workshop. applying heat breaks all the bubbles, plus it temporarily thins out the epoxy. As the rod is turning, the excess epoxy rolls to the bottom of the wrap, where some will drip off. I catch it with my brush tip while there is still a bulge there, and pull it to the front and back of the guide foot, holding it there for a turn or two. This evens out the epoxy on the guide, and you can get a really nice flat finish. I like to have enough epoxy that the threads don't leave bumps in the finish. I want to have a smooth glossy finish all the way. The one final step which is the most technical; to keep thread closest to the guide ring from showing. After epoxy gets tacky, and warms up, it will start to get stringy. I take a drop of epoxy and pull it out of the dish: you have to wait a second for the string to jump onto your brush. Put this drop on the guide where you need a little extra clear, and hold your brush solid as the rod turns. The string of epoxy that forms will roll around the guide. Pull your brush straight down from the rod, so the epoxy string doesn't jump up and grab the blank. Then give it a quick burst or two of flame: you don't want it to thin out and run into the rest of the clear, just thin enough to lay down.

I certainatley appreciate all you guys help on this subject. I have another rod to epoxy this week and will try several of the recommendations presented above. One thing that puzzles me is when applying the epoxy to the guides, after I have gone back and applied heat I will then begin to move the epoxy where it has gathered around the guide foot and move it out to the end of the underwrap. At this point and time I have the flat appearance I'm looking for but as it continues to turn it seems to draw back to the guide feet and taper down the blank, leaving me with a football. This doesn't make since why it seems to move back towards the guide.

Thanks,

Have you checked to see your rod is turning exactly level. With a slight tilt, it can really pile up at one end of the wrap.

What Don Davis said above is something I've learned to do also, so as not to leave excess epoxy on, and also so as to leave similar thickness of covering on all the guides: After the epoxy is on, let the rod stand stationary for a minute or so (exact time depends on type of epoxy and how much it has already thickened), with guides on top, and perfectly level (use a level to assure this). Then, as epoxy flows down and collects on the bottom, remove some with a flat spatula blade. Then start the rod rotating for the usual drying process. Don't overdo this, or the covering will be too thin.

I build mostly fly rods and have started using predominatly single foot guides. At first this was due to less wrapping, but now I tend to like the look of the single foot guides over the double foot. I have seen several post about a locking rap on the single foot guides. Should I be using a locking wrap on the guides to help keep them stable?

I would also like some advice about single foot fly guides with ring incerts. What type do most of you use, and is there a conversion for the guide size from snake to single foot.

Thanks in advance, Klinkerone

Will. You might want to start a new thread on this subject. The Mudhole catalog has a conversion chart, but I believe single foot wire and snakes use the same convention. Ceramics do not. I use a #10 ceramic as a stripper, with the next guide a #4 wire. A size #12 ceramic stripper with a #5 or #6 wire. I like using single foot 10s as a stripper on a light rod. Ceramic rings are different widths, the expensive gold cermet being the smallest. I use the cermets as strippers with wire guides. Fuji Alconites are very popular mid-range ceramics for all ceramics. I have used the little #5s in other brands as running guides in the past, but I am switching to #6s, as leader knots and loops can hang up. I use a blocking wrap on my guides, which is just 4 or 5 turns ahead of the foot. This blocks the tunnel and allows a neater finish. A locking wrap goes around the leg, and I would use this only for the stripper, if at all.

Sorry, I will start a new thread on this subject. I accidentaly nosed my question into this post. I was wondering why I couldn't find my post. Again, forgive me and I will re-post the question.

Thanks, Klinkerone

Thank's guys for all of the great info.