Hi all

Just starting my second rod - a salt water spin. I tried to install a gimbal but am having some difficulty. I know the info I am asking about has been published in the Rod Building Mag but since I don' t yet subscribe to it nor have I found any detailed info on the subject in any of the reference material I have on how to properly install a gimbal thought I'd ask for some assistance.

I measured out the space required for the gimbal. I marked the blank where my butt grip would some to rest allowing enough room to attach the gimbal. I installed the butt grip -- slid down a little farther than I wanted ( this was because the grip was tight amd hard to move) There was still more than enough blank protruding to attach the gimbal. I installed the reel seat using foam brick arbors and installed the foregrip and widing check. I then went back to install the gimbal. I wrapped the blank with fiberglass drywall tape leaving room between the grip and tape so epoxy could settle into the void. I then wet the inside of the gimbal and the blank, tape etc with PC7.

The setup never stabilized -- the epoxy set but I was able to pull the gimbal off the blank with my hand. It appears the expoxy didn't wet the fiberglass tape enough to hold it in place.

So -- for the questions;

(1) Should one install the gimbal first then the rest of the handle assembly or did I install in the appropriate order? All the literature I read indicates handle assy first then butt cap, gimbal or whatever last. Or is this just personal preference?

(2) If using fiberglass tape as an arbor what should I have done to wet the fiberglass to keep it in place? Clearly the non-flowing epoxies like PC7, Rod Bond and so on will not flow into the cloth? (definately a mistake on my part).

(3) What adhesive should I use? I used Rod Bond for the grips and seat and PC7 on the Gimbal. I had assumed PC7 had a greater shear strength but I am not so sure anymore. Interestingly enough I had thrown my excess Rod Bond and PC7 into a box. I picked up the dried gobs and bent and pulled on them. The PC7 appears to be little more porous and more brittle than the Rod Bond. The Rod Bond appears to be a lot tougher.
Should I use Rod Bond -- or maybe 5-minute epoxy to hold the gimbal? I want a good balance between strength and maintenability. Not sure I could remove the gimbal later if using Rod Bond. But on the other hand -- I don't want it to come off when in a fighting situation. Suggestions?

(4) The Gimbal now contains a ring of fiberglass and PC7. I was able to remove some fiberglass to create a gap that I can place epoxy into to remount the gimbal. Should make a great arbor. I soaked the remaining fiberglass with U40 as it is thin and will penetrate the fiberglass and the U40 appears to be stronger than the epoxies (at least in terms of overall hardness) - I am aware that It will take longer to set as it uses evaporation vs catalytic reaction. I won't touch it till it is dry. Any reason I shouldn't use the current setup or should I start over -- clean out the existing gimbal or puchase a new one and use a foam brick arbor?

(5) When reapplying epoxy to attached the gimbal -- how much should I apply? Should I have enough to fill the void including enough to enter into the center / core of the blank or just enough to adhere the gimbal ti the outside of the blank?

Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thank you!
Mark

PS -- I recently finished my first rod which was a rebuild of a 30-yr old rod. I wrote a little about it in an earlier post. The goal was to practice some of various aspects of rod building. I will post pics of the rod / process when I get a chance. I will also do a little write up about a beginners experience. Some I am sure have been discussed and other maybe not. In the meantime -- feel free to contact me and I will be more than happy to share my experiences.
- refinished the entire blank and handle assy
- created a 4-5" decorative 4-axis wrap with 104 threads
- each guide setup consists of 15 individual wraps - with 4 colors - light green, dk green,, metallic gold and metallic green.
- I created a 60 thread weave in green and gold
- I created custom decals using inkjet water slide paper. Not sure how long the ink will hold up as inkjet ink tends to fade over time but it was an interesting process.

Mark,
I think you just set a record for the longest post on this board! Only question not asked was "where do babies come from"? However, sonds like you are having fun at rod building.

You are making the gimbal way too complicated. Take off whatever you put it on with. Since you didn't leave enough room for the gimbal to begin with, you may need to stick a short piece of scrap rod (size the diameter to fit about 1 in into the blank) and epoxy in place. Build up to fit gimbal with masking tape. Cut two, thin, slits the legnth of the masking tape so that the air will have some place to go when you coat the inside of the gimbal with epoxy and slide it into place. Do not use too much epoxy. 5 min epoxy works well for this. Don't forget that most gimbals have slots for the fighting belt which must be ligned up with the reel seat and guides.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

hi mark why would you put a gimble on a spinning rod ?
ive never used a gimble on my salt water rods because i spiral wrap
all my salt water rods , where you dont need one any way
just my two cents
sante

Rod Bond does not cure by evaporation. I'm not sure who told you that, but it's a standard gel type 2-part epoxy. It's plenty strong enough for holding a gimbal.

Sante's point is well taken - spinning rods can't twist under load. Why would you need a gimbal on there?

If you do, some fiberglass drywall tape wound until the gimbal is snug and then saturated with Rod Bond is more than sufficient for the job.

.........

If you stick with the drywall tape, wrap it dry until you have a snug fit for the gimble. Unwind all but two or three wraps and smear on the adhesive, wind more wraps and you'll see the adhesive oozing out of all the holes in the tape. When no more adhesive is squeezing out, smear on another gob and keep winding. Slip on the gimbal by twisting it in the same direction as you applied the tape.

Graphite arbors are easier to use, quicker and a lot less messy than the drywall tape.

Just out of curiosity...why would you want to fill voids with epoxy? It's just extra weight and isn't holding anything together.

Grant is right about unwinding the tape and applying rod bond to the blank first, and be sure the blank area is scuffed up so that you have a water break free surface or the rod bond won't adhere to it. I found that out the hard way! :-{

Grant, you are one of several people who I have seen make that comment about not filling voids under reel seats or gimbals with epoxy because it doesn't hold anything together. If this is true, and I don't believe it is, then why do so many rod building books and guides tell you to be sure to fill all the voids between the rolls of masking tape or wallboard tape with epoxy to insure a solid bond? It would only make sense to me that the solid epoxy from one end to the other would more or less bond everything together as one solid piece whereas leaving voids would give you several individual arbors with no support in between them. What am I missing here? I always fill the voids, but since I only build saltwater rods, it really doesn't matter, I'm just curious as to what you have to back up that statement.

Jim

Because they're wrong, plain and simple. Epoxy relies on close surface contact for the strongest bond. While it needn't be clamped (in fact shouldn't be) a close fit is required in order to obtain any real effect on the parts and surfaces in question.

A glob of epoxy may provide some means of support. But for the most part it adds unnecessary weight. If you want to provide support, that is best done with something lightweight yet rigid, with epoxy used to both that to the seat. There is a proper tool for every job and as far as actually creating bushings or arbors go, epoxy is not the best tool for the job.

Lightweight rigid arbors for support, epoxy for bonding.

..................

Mark, there is one thing I feel you should know, either pierce the area between the axis of the gimbel slots with a hot nail, or a very small drill, or as I do, with a gimlet,or scriber. This lets the entrapped air escape from the blank. I also learned the hard way, align the slots after you have installed the gimbel, and let the air out, and use a piece of 1/4" tape to align the slots to the reel seat. . It is a job to cut with a Dremel, to remove an incorrectly positioned gimbel! Bill T.

I am sorry for the lengthy post earlier but wanted just to outline what I had done. Tom -- are there any awards for verboseness? I think I was voted the winner. LOL.

Just for some clarification -

- I was referring to the U40 Permagloss when I mentioned evaporation. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

- Although the blank doesn't set to the very bottom of the gimbal I still have 1 1/4 inch of blank. The depth of the gimbal is only 1 1/2" so I am only 1/4" short. Not enough to make a difference I dont think.

- I did align the gimbal to the seat -- no problem there-- just getting the thing on the rod and keeping it there is the issue I am having. Dumb on my part (yes dumb) that I didn't wet the fiberglass as I wrapped it. But am sure we all have stories....

- Why the gimbal? -- two reasons; I couldn't find a butt cap I liked -- don't like the plastic stuff and I do keep my rods in rod holders on the stern of boats. If I am not using the gimbal -- I have a cap for it. I like the look of gimbals. I started rod building because I couldn't find rods that I liked. More of an esthetic thing than anything.

So -- I think I have the answer on how much epoxy to use - so now a couple of questions remain

-- do I junk the gimbal I have and start over with a new one and use a foam arbor or can I use the one I have that now has a built in arbor of PC7 and fiberglass tape?

- What epoxy should I use -- is Rod Bond the overwhelming favorite?

- What is the preferred method of handle installation? Grips and Seat then cap or cap first?

-- I didn't seem to have a problem with pressure while the epoxy was curing. I didn't see any lifting. Would the fact the blank is hollow be enough to release the pressure while the epoxy is curing or was I just lucky?

Ohh and the last question --- guess I missed one in my first post -- "Where do babies come from"? And yes -- having a blast rod building although my wife and son are ready to kill me.

Thanks all!!!

Mark

If the PC7 is sound, I would use that for your bushing. Just file or turn to size and remount your gimbal. And yes I would opt for U40 rod bond to mount it.

I end up putting my gimbals on last. But this is only because I need the open end of the blank for insertion into my rod wrapping chuck.

Air will escape from the tip of the blank unless you have the tip top mounted on. If you do then you may well wish to drill a small hole in the bottom of the gimbal directly where the cross slots intersect.

I build many spin rods a year with gimbals, the fishermen want them to keep the rod from flopping around in the rod holder or rocket launcher when the boat is under way. Masking tape is fine for building up the blank and I drill most gimbals to release the air pressure. Jesse

Thank you everyone. I ordered a new gimbal and some foam brick arbors. the old gimbal is probably fine -- the U40 Permagloss and PC7 setup nicely and would likely be a solid base -- but still feel a bit uneasy about it. I don't want to destroy the rear grip so I'd rather take the cautious route.

Mark

In addition to the gimbal keeping the rod from revolving around in the rod holders they also fit nicely into a gimbal belt which some of us use for offshore fishing for sails, dolphin, tuna etc. Keeps the rod butt from doing serious damage to groin areas!!