Roger, Actually with a slack line you will "feel" nothing. How well any vibration is transmitted up a line is a function of the mechanical impedance of the line (mass density and elasticity of the line) and the tension on the line. The higher the tension on the line the better it will transmit vibrations or the less tension on the line the poorer it will transmit vibrations. A slack
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Tom, I think that you are being too kind to this fella. There are numerous statements in his write up that are flat wrong, enough that I think that he is intentionally blowing smoke. The following are some examples of errors or intentionally misleading statements in addition to those already pointed out. 1. He states that hardwod handles result in better sensitivity than cork. In fact, ha
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Bill, I agree with you that resonant frequency measurements, just like action angle measurements of even power measurements are not very useful absolutely or as a single measurement. But I will argue that in the correct context, in comparison to other measurements, most importantly other resonant frequency measurements, they are the most useful of all the measurements that we make. They are th
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Bill, The way I measure a rods or blanks resonant frequency, or natural frequency or first harmonic whichever you prefer to call it, is to lock down the butt of the blank or rod, deflect the tip and then release the tip and let it oscillate through a light beam that is focused on a photo transistor. The output of the photo transistor I connect to an oscilloscope and an electronic counter. The
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Tom, I agree with everything that you said. But it seems to me that your point that everything changes when a blank is turned into a rod strengtens the case for making different measurements on a rod then are made on a blank. Also I do not buy the argument that you have used many times about power and action angle being the same sort of measurements as the measurements of an inch or a pound.
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The CCS was in fact developed by Bill Hanneman for fly rods, fly rods with the handle near the end of the blank. I think that Jim's point is a valid one for rods that have handles that extend further up the blank. This very point came up shortly after the CCS was introduced and was promoted by Mark Gibson and several others on the Bass Fishing Home Page and I think is still being used by them.
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Trinity, I think that maybe before we can have a rational discussion about rod sensitivity we need to agree on a definition. Unless we have a common definition or at least understand how each other uses the word then exchange of information or a rational discussion is not possible. I will argue that rod sensitivity is a function of how well a rod transmits to the fisherman's hand any energy th
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Roger, It seems to me that the question that can be measured and can be quanitatively answered is, what is the sensitivity of the rod? I do not believe that we can answer the question of how sensitive you or any other individual is. The first question is objective the second question is subjective. Or put a different way, I think that feel and sensitivity are entirely different. I can tell
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Russell, The equation for a rods resonant frequency gets a little complicated because a blank tapers and has varying wall thickness but the stiffness devided by the mass gets you in the ball park. The stiffer the blank is the faster it will respond and the lower the mass the faster it will respond. If you want the actual equation let me know. A fast action blank will result in a rod that wil
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Steve, I am not sure what I said that you do not understand but lets take a step or two backwards and be more accurate in what we say. Weight is the affect that gravity has on an object and has nothing at all to do with sensitivity. What really affects sensitivity is inertia which is a function of the rods mass. So it is the increase or decrease in the rods mass that affects a rods sensitiv
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Steve, I did not say that weight at or near the butt of the rod had no affect on sensitivity. In fact, I was an advocate for reducing weight to increase sensitivity long before you were. It is a question of how much weight and is the weight reduction of a split reel seat or split grip enough to have a significant or detectable affect on sensitivity. Maybe you should read what I said again.
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Roger, Apart from your points about discomfort I think that I share your skepticism about the comments that have been made about the improved sensitivity that is the result of the split reel seats. The weight reduction from the split reel seats and also split grips is small and it occurs at a point on the rod where quite a bit of weight reduction is required in order to have a significant or de
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Robert, Lever is only part of what you are dealing with. Leverage is like static balance, just part of the problem, in my judgment a minor part of the problem. Billy, "Internet points" I do not even know what they are much less care who wins or loses them. You can have mine if you want them. Roger, You are paying a heck of a lot for cork.
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Robert, I think that your math is suspect. The detrimental affect of a given mass increses exponentially on a rods performance, performance as measured by the rods resonant frequency, as the mass(weight) is moved from the butt to the tip of a rod.
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Billy, I agree with you that everything is a question of trade offs. But in most fishing situations the problem is not really the static balance of the rod. You can balance a rod statically or so that it feels balanced when it is not in motion but the instant that the rod is put in motion then the weight is not really important it is the inertia that is important and the inertia is a funcion o
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Natural cork is the lighest material that is practical to construct handles from. It also has low thermal mass and poor thermal conductivity which means that it will be warm to the touch. In my judgment all of the new handle materials that I have seen come in second best to cork except in applications where the handle takes a lot of abuse. I agree with Marc that split grips look cool but not
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Russel, I would take Tom's advice rather than looking for the blanks with the smallest diameter. Nothing is for free. There is a price to pay for the smaller diameter. The stiffness of a blank falls off at the CUBE ROOT of diameter. In other words, if you cut the diameter in half you will reduce the stiffness by a factor of nine. This means that as a manufacturer reduces the diameter of a b
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Bill, The higher the modulus of elasaticity the lower the strain energy (the amount of energy that the material will absorb before reaching its strength limit) however, there is no corelation between the modulus of elasticity and impact breakage, at least not a significant corelation. Tom, Anything that can be done to make a high modulus blank more durable like reducing the diameter and incr
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Any coating that is available today is going to degrade the performance of the blank. Carbon fiber is the best material for blanks because it has a high modulus of elasticity and a low density. The coatings all have relatively high densities and are more plastic than elastic in other words have a low modulus of elasticity. If you want the best performing blank get one that does not have a coat
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Bill, And many more balance because they do not realize how much damage they are doing by adding the extra weight. Think about it like this: adding weigh has the same affect as lowering the modulus of elasticity of the material in the blank except that you do not gain the higher strain energy or toughness that lowering the modulus of elasticity gets you. Does it makes sense to you to pay for
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Tom, I think that there may very well be a difference but I think that the difference is going to be small enough that it will be difficult to measure. This actually might be another application for a resonant frequency measurement. Resonant frequency measurements using an electronic counter can give you extremely high resolution and accuracy.
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Two blanks can have identical action angles and virtually every other characteristic of the two blanks can be different including what is being called the action. Some of the characteristics could be dramatically different because they could be made out of entirely different materials so why wouldn't they have different characteristics including what is being called action. I think that two bl
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Robert, I think that there are two main problems with using fast, medium and slow rather than using the blanks action angle. First: Action angle gives you much, much better resolution. Fast, medium, slow just gives you three categories into which all blanks/rods must fall which is really very crude. Action angle will give you as much resolution as your care in making the measurement will allo
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Tom, Yes, I think that you are right. Deflecting the blank to 1/3 its length and then measuring the angle at several points on the blank, as you suggest, is a better way to go to get at what I think that Robert may have been attempting to get at. It would be easier and quicker than what I had suggested. The difficulty with the measurement though will be the same and that is the lack of resolu
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Balancing a rod by adding weight to the butt may well make the rod more comfortable to fish with for some or some may feel that a rod that is well balanced is less tiring over extended periods of fishing, however, do not confuse these subjective considerations with sensitivity. Adding weight or mass will reduce a rods sensitivity. Sensitivity can be clearly defined, and can be measured. It is
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Tom, I think that you may be missing what Robert is attempting to get at. The action angle and the power are measured at a given amount of blank deflection. At any other deflection the power, number of pennies required to deflect the blank a lesser amount, would be less or required to deflect the blank a larger amount would be more. Also at a lesser deflection the angle of the tip will be low
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Maybe I misunderstood or read something into his question that was not there but I thought that Bobby was asking a legitimate question which is: how do blanks act under different loads. Action angle tells us what the action is at a given load but how does a blank react to different loads or maybe more importantly do different blanks with the same or simular action angles act differently under di
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Bobby, If you graph deflection vs load that will give you a curve of stiffness. That is by definition what stiffness. Power is just stiffness at one given load. In the case of the Common Sense System power is measured at a load that results in a deflection of 1/3 the rods length, but I am sure that you knew that. I think that plotting the action angle vs load might get you closer to what
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Ronnie, Terry is giving you good advice. A couple of comments that I might add are: 1. Any added weight is going to reduce the rods sensitivity. 2. Balancing the rod with added weight is only giving you a static balance and the second that you put the rod in motion inertia will cause the rod to be out of balance again.
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Robert, I am in complete agreement with you. I build more Salmon and Steelhead rods than Bass rods but I have built qite a few of the rainshadow RX8+ and I think that they are the finest Bass blanks that I have had my hands on. Scott, It is my understanding that these blanks have been very successful and they are going to significantly expand the line.
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