The number one point I can see in this coversation is. Are you a custom rod builder or not. If you are you take all the information provided you from your client. Such as how he is going to fish, what kind of fish he is after, what type of reel he well be using and in some cases is he after a line record fish. with this information you should be able to help your custer in designing his rod.
If you had a old 38 Ford 3 windowed coup and wanted it to become a rodster who do you take it to? Joe blow auto or BIG DADDY!!! I know he would take your ideas and come up with a show car and I know he would have put your ideas into that car. So take what that customer gives you and build it. Let your custermer see the process as it is being done. The client does not have to see you do it at all, just the progress

I think there is a difference between a rod assembler and a rod builder. If Brad just followed the customer's instructions, then he is doing nothing that anyone else with some manual dexterity cannot also do. Thus, he finds himself in competition with a myriad assortment and huge number of people who can also offer what he does. I have heard fishermen talk of finding the person who can "put a rod together the cheapest". In my opinion, that's a bad market to be in.

When I look at the rod builders who are the most succesful, at least in terms of actually making good income or a full living at this, I see one thing that they do than most custom builders do not - they offer the customer something that they cannot get elsewhere. I leave myself out of this for the time being and look at guys like Russ Gooding and Bob Meiser. The work they do on handles, inlays and the like set them apart. If you want that particular look, you have to go to them. That's how they have found their unique place in the market. And their rods sell for prices that most custom builders do not command.

Brad is offering a pariticular rod design and has built his business and clientele around it. (The Revolver Rod, originated by Rich Forhan is about more than just a spiral wrap.) I would bet that ultimately he will have more business and make more money by doing just that. He has very little competition because he has found his niche and is sticking with it rather than trying to be all things to all people. You can still take your customers needs into account, although that is quite different from letting him dictate what he "wants". Two different things.

I don't think there is anything wrong with just assembling rod parts that a customer has selected. It probably takes just as much skill, but it also places those who do it at the bottom of the custom rod pricing avenue. You just have to decide where you want to be in this whole affair and gear your business to that particular clientele.

I cannot say how many rod assembly jobs I turned down flat. Jobs where a fellow would come in and specify such and such a blank and such and such guide placement. There were hundreds of them and for me it was good business to turn them away. For others, it might not be such a good idea. Again, you just have to decide which niche you want to be in. As long as you realize that it is hard, if not downright impossible, to be every niche.

How do you know if you are in the right niche? Easy. Ask yourself, Are you building all the rods you want to build? Are you making all the money you want to make? If you answer yes to both questions then just keep on doing what you are doing. If you answer no to either one, then you can do better by adjusting the way you approach custom rod building.
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I for one will not agree to do just anything the customer wants just so I can take his money. By the way, do any of you know how many roller guides I need for a 9' 10wt. fly rod, and is size A thread strong enough to wrap a cup holder to the butt? Just Kidding

Bill Doherty

I'd use 6 rollers on the fly rod and use electrician's tape for fastening my cup holder to the rod butt.

(*Just in case - this is also a joke along the same line as Bill's.)

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But hey Bill,
If you really want to go custom with the cup holder, you should not use electicians tape, but really go custom and use tommy tape.
And for the rollers, make sure you use the smallest possible size near the tip, and with black frames to match the tommy tape cup holder. I might also offer a set of custom matching cups that should be used in the cupholder. Now, we're talking custom rod, eh? LOL.

(just joking)

Rich

p.s. This discussion is interesting and all points of view brought out are valid and food for thought. Terminology about "custom crafted", "custom designed", etc. etc. will likely go on for a long time with a few creative additioins, I should think.

I like both tom's and Rich's ideas . I myself use shrink tubing to hold my guides and realseats together. I have yet to have one fail. LOL just jokeing. Actually Their have been a lot of good valid points brought out. Gentlemen remember we are here to build the ultamute rod for our clients. I belive with our knowledge and knowing what our client wants in a rod. Here on the West coast I have clients who are meat fisherman and others who are just hook and release guys. So you don't even come close to building the same rod to fight the same fish. I belive this thread well go on for a millinium. So just keep smileing and wraping and a few of you can laugh at my spelling. What the heck I am just a old pole wraper.
Keep smileing Bob

Rich must say I disagree the cupholder must be titantium to reduce weight, in addition one can add there favorite beverage to the cup in an effort to balance the rod.Once full the cup beverage may be sipped untill the perfect balance is acheived.Numerous test regarding balancing must be used in our efforts to produce the perfect rod, which I am sure will begin to appear much better after the third series of test
John

This all has been quite interesting and with good humor at the end. But guys have you forgotten that most all fishermen come with built in cup holders, aka the Big Belly, and being a true southern geltlemen if I needed another cup holer only duck tape would do to hold in place. Have a good one guys!

Thanks Tom,

You are dead-on and said it much better then I could have. Now the problem I find with cup holders is that one cup size don't fit all.