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Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Herb Knowlton (---)
Date: June 09, 2024 01:58PM

On this cold, rainy MI afternoon I am working on putting guides on a North Forks Composite FAF 1003-4 blank. The blank has an almost fish scale finish-I like it. I am using Gudebrod 9541 size A metallic thread. This is my first time using this particular thread. I thought it would look cool. I am having a lot of trouble with the wraps. It’s difficult starting the wrap as well as packing them. I’ve done a lot of rods over the years and this has become irritating. Is it the rod finish, choice of thread, both or just me? Anyone else have experience wrapping these blanks? I do like the blank a lot. All the NFC blanks I’ve used are great. I may just take a break and wait for a sunny day!

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: June 09, 2024 02:14PM

Herb,
For this particular rod blank - ditch the metallic thread and try again.

If you still have issues with the thread, then - if it were me, I would take the graphite down to the bare blank polish it and go to wrapping.
There is 0 need to have any finish on the top of a rod blank. The only thing that the finish does is to make it heavier and add some color - possibly.

Take care

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: June 09, 2024 02:14PM

Herb,
For this particular rod blank - ditch the metallic thread and try again.

If you still have issues with the thread, then - if it were me, I would take the graphite down to the bare blank polish it and go to wrapping.
There is 0 need to have any finish on the top of a rod blank. The only thing that the finish does is to make it heavier and add some color - possibly.

Take care

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Ross Pearson (---.dlth.qwest.net)
Date: June 09, 2024 02:26PM

[www.rodbuilding.org] Tom Kirkman's response from this previous ridged blank thread would be worth trying. The wrap threads should cross the ridges rather than progress parallel to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2024 02:31PM by Ross Pearson.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: david taylor (---)
Date: June 09, 2024 02:42PM

The ridges on the NFC fly blanks (or any blank with ridges) make wrapping more difficult, as they tend to redirect or slide the thread left or right to a certain degree. I have made a number of NFC fly rods from FAF blanks, and would offer this advice:

1) Do not use slick or metalic thread. I have been using Fuji Ultra Poly with embedded CP and the grey color (019) looks really good on the NFC blanks;
2) Ensure you have your guide feet ground to a nice and even incline up from the blank;
3) When I start my thread I go three tight wraps around the blank before crossing the thread over, as the ridges make starting a wrap much more difficult due to the sliding of the thread on the ridge;
4) Once you get 4 or 5 good wraps you will need to straighten out the thread to ensure it has an even edge, then you will need to pack the thread every 3 or 4 wraps. I do not cut my thread end until I have 7 or 8 good wraps;
5) Take particular care when making the first wrap up the guide foot, and you will need to pack thread every 2 or three wraps as you move up the guide foot;
6) I make sure I wrap with a high degree of tension on my tension device.

You could also try size D thread.

I found that once I got the hang of it with Size A, it was far less of an issue. Non-sanded blanks are kind of in vouge these days. You can sand the blank or knock the ridges down by wet-sanding or using a Scotch-Brite type pad, but if you go too deep you can harm the blank.

Good luck.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Herb Knowlton (---.biz6.spectrum.com)
Date: June 09, 2024 03:07PM

I appreciate the comments. I’m hesitant to sand the blank and may give up on the metallic thread and see how it goes.
Thanks

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 09, 2024 04:35PM

I still don't see how the strategy of wrapping across the ridges works with double foot guides where one has to wrap both ways to do both feet. It seems like it will work only in one direction.

I think David Taylor has the best advice.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Ross Pearson (---.dlth.qwest.net)
Date: June 09, 2024 05:09PM

"I still don't see how the strategy of wrapping across the ridges works with double foot guides where one has to wrap both ways to do both feet. It seems like it will work only in one direction." By being able to flip the blank 180 degrees on the wrapper and by beiing able to wrap both up or down (left or right) on the blank, the thread can be directed across the ridges on double foot guides as well as single foot guides.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: June 09, 2024 05:34PM

Metallic embroidery thread works so much better because the thread has to be able to run through that high-speed needle in use, I've made many wraps with it and had no issues, give it a try, for a few bucks and a trip to your local fabric store your issues may go away. Size 40 polyester thread is slightly smaller than A thread and in a bunch of colors you won't see elsewhere, I use Suly brand, not sure it would make a difference, but it is always available and nice thread.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 09, 2024 05:38PM

Ross , are you sure that this really changes the direction the thread wrap is approaching the ridge? I don't think so. It only works in one direction. The orientation of the ridges is set no matter which way I mount the blank. In one direction I will be wrapping with the ridges instead of against them. ???

It's not a game changer, but regardless of the mounting of the blank, in one direction I will be wrapping against the ridges and in the other, with them. Unless there is some new geometry of which I am unaware. ???

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Kerry Hansen (---.wavecable.com)
Date: June 09, 2024 09:35PM

Ross Pearson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I still don't see how the strategy of wrapping
> across the ridges works with double foot guides
> where one has to wrap both ways to do both feet.
> It seems like it will work only in one direction."
> By being able to flip the blank 180 degrees on the
> wrapper and by beiing able to wrap both up or down
> (left or right) on the blank, the thread can be
> directed across the ridges on double foot guides
> as well as single foot guides.


It is sad that you have to deal with that kind of finish. I like the old smooth finish that I wrapped on the G Loomis blanks say 1980. Why not now? I have wrapped on their new offering last year, but would rather not. I don't believe I would ever do a weave on one. Difficult enough to pack properly on a smooth flat finish.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Ross Pearson (---.dlth.qwest.net)
Date: June 09, 2024 09:56PM

[www.rodbuilding.org] Thread comes from behind the blank and goes over the top of blank which has the top axis rotated toward the builder.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2024 10:03PM by Ross Pearson.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: June 10, 2024 06:26PM

Personally, I've tried using metallic thread to do trim bands on the ridged blanks like the original finish X rays, and C6O2 blanks, Delta's etc. and I can't get metallic thread to pack worth beans on those blanks. And I'm wrapping the metallic threads by holding the thread in my hand, and wrapping it around the blank, so it's no where near under the type of tension the thread coming off the spool is under. Metallic just seems to stick in those grooves. If I am planning to use metallic trim bands or inlays in the wraps for a rod I'm building. I'm either using a blank that is smooth from the factory, or if they don't offer a smooth version of a blank, like the NFC Delta blanks, I'm sanding it to make it smooth.


Even regular nylon thread requires more frequent and more attention in packing the threads, on the blanks with ridges.

I'd love to see some sales data from someone at NFC in regards to the numbers of original finish X ray blanks sold, versus the number of mirror black finish X rays sold.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Jason Whitman (---)
Date: June 11, 2024 06:44PM

I haven't had any significant problems with the NFC ridged blanks (X-rays, C6O2, etc) and metallic thread. I've not used Gudebrod though, just Fuji and Prowrap. If push comes to shove, try taping the tag end to the blank until you get five or six tight wraps over it, then try packing your wraps, trimming the tag end, and wrapping from there. Also, when you get to the edge of the guide foot, move your carriage or the rod so that the first few wraps onto the foot are well up onto the foot, and under a good bit of tension, then gently push them down to meet the rest of the wrap and cover that transition to the foot, if that makes sense. It helps keep that slick metallic thread from sliding off the foot and getting in that gap between the blank and the guide.

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Re: Guide wrap problem
Posted by: Herb Knowlton (---)
Date: June 13, 2024 06:59PM

Thanks for the replies and helpful insights. Lots of ideas to consider.

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